Is Gen 5 Prius really better-looking than Gen 4 Prius Prime?

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Gokhan, May 24, 2023.

Page 21 of 26
  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,048
    16,267
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    It also used higher factory tyre pressures (39/36 psi) and use a different tyre.... Dunlops I think?
     
    #401 Tideland Prius, Apr 16, 2024
    Mendel Leisk and Trollbait like this.
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,576
    11,852
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    #402 Trollbait, Apr 16, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2024
  3. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    5,125
    1,996
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Your calculations were/are wrong.

    First, you should know that you shouldn't round off numbers before you do the calculation. You should round them off afterwards. That is well known in error and significant-figure handling. It doesn't matter at all whether you use mpg or gpm.

    Second, you could easily calculate the wheel/tire-size effect using the nonhybrid numbers, as the same wheel/tire sizes were also tested for the nonhybrid Camry. However, you chose to guestimate it instead, which resulted in additional error.
     
    #403 Gokhan, Apr 16, 2024
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    57,113
    39,433
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Yeah remember that. Kind of crazy to think they were achieving "eco" status, by merely bumping the tire pressure. I know there's more to it, but that bit...
     
    #404 Mendel Leisk, Apr 16, 2024
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,576
    11,852
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    This isn't for a peer reviewed paper, and you used the rounded mpg figures presented for the cars.

    As I said, I used the 2024 EPA figures to keep with the 2024. There is no 2024 ICE Camry with 16" wheels in the EPA database. The L that you happened to find wasn't sold to the general public in a meaningful way. It existing, and having a separate EPA rating, is not common knowledge.

    With the XLE to L improvement being 9.7%, the Li-ion coulombic efficiency improvement is 3.3%.
     
    #405 Trollbait, Apr 16, 2024
    Blackat likes this.
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,048
    16,267
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I mean, have you seen the recommended PSI for the Model 3? Might partially explain the harsh ride on the earlier models. Not sure if they’ve changed the requirement for the Highland model (it’s using Hankook iON Evo AS tyres)
     
    #406 Tideland Prius, Apr 16, 2024
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    57,113
    39,433
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    yes, 42 psi.
     
    #407 Mendel Leisk, Apr 16, 2024
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  8. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    5,125
    1,996
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    I don't know where you are getting the 9.7% from. It is 6.25% (34/32 − 1) for the combined mpg. That makes the Li-ion coulombic efficiency improvement 6.4% (52/46 × 32/34 − 1) for the combined mpg.

    For the city mpg, the Li-ion coulombic efficiency improvement is 11.9% (51/44 × 28/29 − 1).

    For the highway mpg, the Li-ion coulombic efficiency improvement is 7.3% (53/47 × 39/41 − 1).

    The numbers are scattered due to round-off errors. I would take the average of the three and say that the Li-ion coulombic efficiency improvement is about 8.5%. Likewise, the average wheel/tire size improvement is about 5.0%. Therefore, the Li-ion coulombic efficiency improvement is more than the wheel-size improvement for the P205/65R16 vs. P235/45R18 tires.

    2018 Camry brochure
     
    #408 Gokhan, Apr 16, 2024
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,576
    11,852
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    I stated multiple times that I used 2024 EPA figures to keep like to like with the 2024 Canadian ones.

    The 2024 XLE/XSE is rated 31 combined mpg. And that is so going back to at least 2021.
    Compare Side-by-Side
     
    #409 Trollbait, Apr 16, 2024
  10. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    5,125
    1,996
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    2025 Camry is live on the Toyota website now.

    2025 Camry LE is rated 53/50/51 mpg (city/highway/combined) and priced $28,400.
    2024 Camry LE was rated 51/53/52 mpg (city/highway/combined) and priced $28,855.

    2024 Prius LE is priced $27,950.
     
    #410 Gokhan, Apr 17, 2024
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    45,048
    16,267
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Wow. They’ve kept the pricing in check? Or did the 2024 Camry have a price hike?
     
    #411 Tideland Prius, Apr 17, 2024
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,576
    11,852
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Looks like the 2023 had an increase of $1500 to $1700.

    When comparing between the current and 2025 Camry, I noticed that all the current trims have Li-ion. I'm guessing it happened around the time the XLE/XSE combined went from 32 to 31mpg; the change triggered retesting. Some the difference between trims is all wheels, tires, and the little bit of weight.
     
    #412 Trollbait, Apr 17, 2024
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    5,125
    1,996
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    I'm not sure what you mean, but Li-ion is more Coulombic-efficient than NiMH, and you would get a higher mpg with Li-ion than with NiMH as a result for a given wheel/tire size. Yes, they all went Li-ion at one point, but we don't know what was retested and what wasn't. Also, as I've been emphasizing to you over and over again, the uncertainty in the EPA numbers is huge; so, you are comparing apples to oranges, especially if you compare something that was tested in 2018 to something that was tested in 2023, likely in a different laboratory by different people.
     
    #413 Gokhan, Apr 17, 2024
  14. Eddie F

    Eddie F New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2024
    15
    3
    0
    Location:
    Windsor, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    SE
    Totally agree. i like my 2021, but 2024 is even prettier.
     
    #414 Eddie F, May 9, 2024
  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,301
    8,417
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    hardly ..
    more like comparing Fuji apples to honey crisp.
    .
     
    #415 hill, May 9, 2024
    Trollbait likes this.
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,576
    11,852
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    CR is the apples to oranges comparison.
     
    #416 Trollbait, May 9, 2024
  17. DOHCtor

    DOHCtor Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2021
    139
    80
    0
    Location:
    Levis (Quebec city's south shore)
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    SE
    Having had both i would agree. 2024 is better in my opinion in most aspects excepted highway milleage (2021 had better mpg's) and headroom (a non issue in my case as i'm 5ft 6in tall..)

    As for the looks, it wasn't the reason i bought the 2021 Prime in the first place but it grew on me. More so with the 16" ROH and the Crossclimate 2. That car should have come with 16" tires as OE. It handled way better with these.
     
    #417 DOHCtor, May 18, 2024
    Last edited: May 18, 2024
  18. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    7,902
    6,693
    0
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera (Gulf South)
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Is Gen 5 Prius really better-looking than Gen 4 Prius Prime?
    Is Naomi Campbell REALLY better looking than Roseanne Barr?

    But then..... I think that a Pontiac Aztec is better looking than a G4.
     
    #418 ETC(SS), May 18, 2024
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,301
    8,417
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    You mean in an Alfred E Newman versus Carrot Top sorta comparison?
    .
     
    #419 hill, May 18, 2024
  20. flim

    flim Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    215
    144
    0
    Location:
    Huntington Beach, California
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE Premium
    I saw the Turquoise Jewel today!

    l IMG_0908.jpeg
     
    #420 flim, May 19, 2024
    Blackat, Preebee and Trollbait like this.
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 21 of 26