Interesting Hybrid vs Tesla consumption conclusion

The idling fee was required due to the huge surging popularity of Teslas and the need to keep stalls open for incoming cars that want to charge . It’s a good and necessary move as Teslas become more and more common.

 

I would say the public charger rate is ALWAYS more expensive than home charging.
Charge providers don’t want to price lower than home, even if they could. The charger providers have to pay for the hardware and probable higher rates (especially if they aren’t using batteries).

While there are regions with more expensive gas when compared with a Prius, when compared to the average fuel efficiency, those areas get much smaller.

 

I am not sure exactly what you are trying to say here? Are you comparing BEV cost of operation to a gasser cost of operation? Or are you comparing the gas cost for a Prius vs for average fuel efficiency cars? The Prius (including Prius Prime) makes gas costs cheaper than average fuel efficiency cars.

And my point is that the very high fuel efficiency of Prius makes the cost of operation of a car with gasoline cheaper than the cost of operation of a BEV with electricity in those regions where the electricity rate is very high and when the cost of charging on the road is compared to the cost of gasoline. I happen to live in such a region with a very high home electricity rate, so I know how cost-effective it is to drive a Prius Prime compared to almost any other BEV except maybe Model 3. But when I take into consideration of the initial cost of the car, there is just no way I can save money by driving a BEV including a Model 3.

As long as BEV ownership is restricted to small numbers of people with resources (i.e. $$$) then widespread electrification of cars is still a pipe dream.

 

Sounds like the debate is what's easier on your pocket...

Tesla's purchase price puts it at a major disadvantage, unless you plan to drive that Model 3 for decades to breakeven! I'll take the Prius with decades of free gas and shorter long distance trips every time.

 

In Canada more and more jurisdictions are offering incentives to get off fossil fuels and go fully electric. It will happen and the planet will be all the better for it.

 

True in part, but it's deferred in a sense as the waste product from batteries are bad for the planet!

Environmentally speaking, electric vehicle batteries are far from perfect: assembling them depletes the earth of its natural resources, manufacturing them is energy-intensive (in addition to massively water intensive), charging them requires dirty energy, recycling them is nearly impossible.

But for the sake of this thread's question, which is easier on the pocket? Hybrid still wins it seems.

 

Lots of things in life are difficult. Why add to it by counting the 15¢ - 35"¢ more per kWh that CCS may charge you - on a 320 mile drive that maybe 90% of drivers will only do but once or twice a year.

So - buy the Tesla & you won't have to fret over it. Their network is 5 years ahead of CCS anyway

That's the worry? Would you want a Gasser to start their fill - then walk across the street to have their sausage McMuffin?

First of all - the 85% to 100% fill is the slowest charge length. Your smart phone app gives you a good warning time ... and THEN - if you are truly self-absorbed and can't get off your rear to go be courteous to others waiting - it gives you around a 5 minute additional laggard time.
Good thing you're not really in the market for a Tesla anyway. You can just someday get an EV that runs on the CCS net on those couple long drives per year - and hope to God the one or 2 units aren't occupied - or that the laggard that's camping at it comes back someday because he's not worried about any penalties.

or - maybe drivers need to catch up on a couple emails, of a mini nap/rest, or make some calls ... or they already have their snack with them. I used to keep a plastic pump spray bottle of wash & wax product in the car - use the 15 minutes to wipe it down as road dust bugs me.
But to assume someone's making sure that last ½ a kWh ... 2 miles of juice is their concern. No - no one save the most O.C.D. would do that.

 

There's different levels of "bad for the planet". Tobacco and cyanide are both "bad for your body", but if I had to pick one I know which I'd choose. Producing and disposing of Li-ion batteries bad for the planet, but extracting and burning petroleum is significantly worse.

Not sure where you got the idea that the batteries are difficult to recycle? Li-ion batteries are VERY recyclable.

I'm no Tesla fan (**** Elon Musk), but imo you're greatly exaggerating the drawbacks of BEV's in general.

 

I think that you are confusing reuse with recycling. At this time, the greatest demand for used Li-ion batteries is reusing as battery packs for uses like household energy banking where it's OK to have many low capacity cells. Eventually, those will also reach end of life and need to be disposed of.

Recycling, on the other hand, brings the hazards of self igniting fires, leaking Hydrofluoric acid and the difficulty of separating the lithium and other minerals from the caustic and poisonous electrolyte. We don't have any large scale economical recycling companies that handle Car sized Li-ion battery packs.

I did find https://www.batteryrecyclersofamerica.com/battery-recycling-faq/ but it appears that they smelt the lithium batteries to get the precious metals while burning up the lithium itself. So it's still not so much a recycling as it is a toxic waste disposal industry.

 

All cars are bad for the environment hahaha! Not stating any exaggeration actually if you read it again, just saying BEVs are far from perfect...and for the purposes of this thread...hybrids are still the winner for saving us money!

 

I have to agree with MPGboss. If you want to save the environment, you use the most energy efficient mode of transport, not the least expensive. On top of that you want the mode which uses the fewest natural resources per mile of it's lifespan. That would include fuels, metals, etc. Point to Point mass transit would probably be the best, if we could implement it.