Interesting "head to head" of the 2023 Prius and 2023 Hybrid Corolla.

Isn't the import tariff something like 10%? It's why Europe got a Yaris hybrid instead of an imported Aqua/Prius c. The Prius did better there back when the other option in hybrids besides the Yaris was the Auris.

People do buy on looks, but the Prius is also a Japan centric design. The large but thin tires isn't a new thing there.

This is general difference between the two markets. In the US, smaller cars are seen as entry level or economy models. People willing to pay for nicer features and technology will buy the next size up or a luxury brand. Between the width of local roads and higher costs of owning a car, smaller cars are more the norm in Europe. That means the mainstream brands are better equipped than in comparison to the US model.

The person buying a Corolla in Europe would buy a Camry in the US.

 

We had a late model Corolla loaner (from our bodyshop) a few years back, and it made me depressed.

I'd miss the hatchback, for starters.

 

I currently own an EU 2017 Prius Prime w/ roof solar panel (15", 195/65 tyres ), and before it I used to own a 2010 Gen III. Both cars have basically the same 1,8 l ICE.

With traction battery depleted, my Prime averages 30 km/l in town, while my old Gen III with stock 17" 217/45 tyres barely averaged 20 km/l in the same conditions.

After I had installed 16" 205/55 winter tyres (on 16" rims of course), the fuel consumptions improved a bit.. 22 km/l. But when I replaced the stock Bridgestone Turanza with a set of low rolling resistance 17" summer tyres (Toyo Nanoenergy) fuel consumption improved by a good 15% without any impact on the handling (whell those Toyos didn't like much braking on wet asphalt,,,).

Anyway, I think that 2023 Prius consumption are higher than previous Prius not only due to larger tyre size, but also for a series of contributing factors such as:
- larger (in terms of displacement) and powerful ICE; a larger displacement means that during the warm up phase the engine requires more fuel, and more power means that the average driver sooner or later will make use of it.
- body designed for appeal instead than efficiency: when I look to my Prime, it's easy to notice hat every detail of the body is aimed to get the best aerodynamic penetration and reduce the weight, just think about the tailgate made by (costly) carbon fiber and its concave shaped glass with no wiper... I wonder if 2023 Prius has still the hood made by alloy to save weight.
- bigger traction battery: it means also a heavier traction battery. More weight=less efficiency.

Just to know, in my country the only 2023 Prius version that will be listed is the Prime w/solar roof.... probably because our market is already saturated by the Corolla hybrid, listed with both 1.8 and 2.0 engines, cross-over and station wagon versions.

 

If you look at BSFC charts you'll see that internal combustion engines tend to be most efficient close to full throttle (diesels can be most efficient at full throttle) albeit not at full RPMs. But at any rate, that still means the more powerful the enigine, the farther you'll be running near full throttle while driving, and in turn, farther from the most efficient RPM/load combo.

Using the power to take off in itself isn't what wastes fuel. It's the fact that you're more likely to brake and turn that built up momentum into brake heat.

 

Maybe if we could quantify exactly how many MPGs we are losing just due to the wheel size? The 52 MPG for the XLE and Limited would look pretty good if it didn't have to be showing right next to the LE's eye popping 56 MPG. I can forgive the larger wheels if they only cause 1 MPG drop, but if they are responsible for half or more of the MPG variance, it seems counter-intuitive. The re-design already looks great and modern without the 19 inch wheels.

 

It isn't any different than the comparison between the gen4's L Eco and the other trims. The L Eco is a tiny bit better than the 2023 LE, while all the others were the same. The old Eco being almost 90 pounds lighter than the new LE. The weight difference between low and higher trims within a generation is pretty close

The wheels on the new XLE and Limited aren't just bigger, they are heavier, and that weight is added to the worse spot to put it on a car. Then the different wheel design and slight increase in height could have a negative impact on the car's aero.

 

That's the thing. You actually have on-ramps! Those don't exist for some 200 miles from where I live.

I drove 30,000lb commercial vehicles with little 200hp engines for quite a while all over the state. I always thought the on-ramps in the cities were ok, even the uphill ones, for a truck that size. But now you're saying they're not long enough for a little 3,000lb car with a nearly 200hp engine??? That's like ten times the acceleration!

 

Probably the news didn't came yet in US, but the Corolla in EU is now delivering in these days with the complete new HEV powertrain of the Prius 2023, both in hatchback and SW versions, and with the new 1,8 for Japan and the 2.0 (only FWD), new interiors with the big instrument cluster, the big infotainment screen and software of the Prius, and very minor external facelift, but with the 16" standard and 17" optional (thanks god).

The 1,8 has been brought from 122 to 140 hp, 0-100 km/h down 1,8 sec, new lithium battery, new MG2 increased power.
The 2,0 is the same 196hp of the Prius 2023.
All TSS 3.0 standard.

Trims vary depending on country. In Italy only one version almost Top trim with a single optional pack 1000 eur.
Then a GR Sport versione with only cosmetic difference and electronic suspensions and some extra accessory.

I do believe the 122 hp will soon disappear also in US.

Toyota starts production of 5th generation hybrid powertrain

https://scene7.toyota.eu/is/image/toyotaeurope/corolla-hb-9?qlt=80&wid=1280&fit=fit,1&ts=19423&resMode=sharp2&op_usm=1.75,0.3,2,0

https://scene7.toyota.eu/is/image/toyotaeurope/corolla-ts-14:Medium-Landscape?ts=19423&resMode=sharp2&op_usm=1.75,0.3,2,0

https://scene7.toyota.eu/is/image/toyotaeurope/CORHB6009_22?qlt=80&wid=1280&fit=fit,1&ts=19423&resMode=sharp2&op_usm=1.75,0.3,2,0

 

I thought the EU Corolla hybrid already had a 2L option. What makes this one new to it?

 

Yes, it had the 2L option, 180 hp and 4th gen powertrain.
The 5th gen powertrain 2.0 is 196Hp and is new, with new electric motors too.

 

Just seeing at the multimedia and cockpit, documented here in English in this video, is probably a good idea to wait.

The 5th generation powertrain, both the 1,8 & 2.0 should be better documented soon, the improvements seems substantial. In EU is already also in the Corolla Cross.
Many test drives on youtube in EU of the 5th gen powertrain confirm a substantial improvement.

 

Wow that is insane. I would have strongly been leaning toward getting the Corolla Hybrid if it had that digital instrument cluster + the 2.0 Hybrid.

What's the mileage like?

How much does that cost?

Will these options make it to the US anytime soon?

 

I think we already got this refresh. The 2023's hp went to 138 from 121. I don't think the US will get the 2L in order to sell the Prius. Maybe we'll get the digital dash with the redesign. We tend to get things in the Corolla later than the rest of the world.

 

That dash looks terrible IMO. But I'm weird.

 

The 2023 EU Corolla Hatch 5th gen 1,8 140 hp have WLTP 4,4 lt/100km (16") (53.5 MPG),
Corolla TS 4,5 lt/100km (52,3 MPG).
The Hatch 2.0 196 hp should be 4.6 lt/100km (51 MPG).

Comparing with the Prius IV EPA and WLTP, the 2 system should be almost identical, in this case.

 

The WLTP EU returns better results than the EPA window sticker. Divide The WLTP by 1.12 for an EPA estimate.
So the three mpg would be 48, 47, 46.

It appear the lack of the 1.8L option in the Prius for North America isn't much of a loss from those numbers. Some would want the extra 2 to 3 mpg, but not enough to justify the cost of certifying two drive trains. In Japan, the difference could be larger. They only use 3 of the 4 cycles in the WLTP. Dropping the the highest speed one those Corolla figures would have incorporated.

 

If you went into the problem of correlation between EPA and WLTP you would know that the correlation factor is all over the places.
A fixed coefficient doesn't exist.

 

That is why I used estimate.

I also didn't do the work.
Here Is What A Comparison Of EPA/WLTP Range Ratings Reveal
The 1.12 was from memory of an older article on the topic. Old enough that it also covered NEDC.

 

If you are trying to merge onto a freeway using an onramp, there is a very simple and safe way to do it.

Key #1 is to recognize that the speed of the engine is not directly related to the speed of the wheels. Many people think that they are overtaxing the engine when they floor it so they let off the gas and slow down when they don't need to. The engine is controlled by the software, and it will not normally over rev. The 2017 Prime has a limiter that provides a top speed of 103 MPH.

Key #2, A nearby interstate on-ramp has a traffic control light that requires that you stop regardless of traffic. This means a standing start up an inclined 579 foot on-ramp to merge at a freeway speed of anywhere from 10 MPH to 65 MPH. I've never failed to merge safely, even with a 2002 Prius.

Key #3 As you near the end of the merge lane you have two options. A) Speed up to get ahead of the car next to you. This often works simply because the fastest traffic will not be in the right lane. If the person decides to outrace you, this most often creates a usable gap between them and the car following them. This brings us to option B) Tap the brake and slide into the space that speed racer created when you failed to outrun him.

I learned this technique during years of Bay Area commuting every day in an underpowered Mazda RX-7. LOLs (Little Old Ladies) in their big luxury SUVs never yielded to my small coupe. The same technique works on city streets too. It's easy to change lanes after a stop light if the Porsche next to you is not trying to outrun you. If the Porsche driver is trying to outrun you there will be a long empty space behind him that you can slip into without breaking the 35 MPH speed limit. You'll catch up to him at the next stop light.