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Installs & Reviews of Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by amped, Nov 8, 2004.

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  1. orlans108

    orlans108 Junior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    Daniel -- Thanks so much for sharing information with us!

    I like your logic on choosing the Hydroedge, and I agree with you on all the safety first issues. Plus John is a details guy, and I feel fine going with what he recommends.

    A few questions:
    Have you noticed any change, up or down, in terms of road noise comparing the HydroEdge and OEM tires? Tire Rack rates the TripleTred ahead in this area, but as you said it's only a survey.

    Will you run the HydroEdge at recommended PSI, or increase it?
    If you have increased it, is it for handling, economy, or what? What are your results?

    And lastly have you noticed a slight MPG decrease with your new tires as John reported?

    Thanks,
    Orlans
     
    #21 orlans108, Nov 13, 2004
  2. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

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    Yes, some of my friends put 195/65 even 205/65R15.

    195/60 615mm diameter
    195/65 635mm diameter
    185/65 621mm diameter (stock)
    The 195/60 is small and light, and it becomes low-geared.
    We found a little bigger diameter is slightly better for mileage.

    The spec for the Toyota original rims are...
    US/Japan 15X6JJ PCD=100mm offset=45mm 6.45kg
    EU/Japan 16X6JJ PCD=100mm offset=45mm 6.90kg

    Regards,
    Ken@Japan
     
    #22 ken1784, Nov 13, 2004
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    Hearing about another high-traction tire (Goodyear TripleTread) being available is great. But we are going to have to be patient about the data gathering. Fortunately, the handling difference was very easy to assess. The HydroEdge tires provided so much of an improvement, it wasn't even necessary to quantify. It was obvious.

    It's really difficult to pinpoint the MPG difference though. The tread needs to wear down a bit, rounding off the teeny-tiny (we're only talking 1/32") square edges first. And that takes a looooong time with rubber so hard. But it is noticeable, especially when you rotate for the first time. Then when you do get past all that, the seasons have changed... throwing all your calculations askew. To make matters worse, the car itself is breaking-in during all that. So at the end, you aren't really sure what the heck.

    Fortunately, I put on the miles fast enough (8,100 miles already). And being a programmer, managing large quantities of data is no big deal. So I was able to nail down the efficiency difference to be darn close to 1.5 MPG lower, which I consider a small price to pay for such an improvement in traction and duration of use.

    The cool part is the Prius is well broken in now (24,000 miles). So even with those tires, having the temperatures around freezing now (both commute drives yesterday were actually at just 28 F degrees), I would have expected the MPG to be near last year's November average. Instead, it's a little bit higher. And the best part is, the data from my previous Prius shows that I can expect break-in to continue for roughly another 10,000 miles. Sweet!

    Snow is the only remaining research I have now. But that white nasty stuff isn't too far away anymore. It's certainly cold enough at this point. Though, I'm not sure I'll be able to quantify this measurement. It may not be obvious enough. Having driven so far with those tires already, I'm kind of spoiled. I've grown accustom to the increased grip. And since I didn't have any trouble with traction last winter with the OEM tires anyway, I'm not sure how to report my experiences. I guess I'll end up saying my winter drives were "uneventful", just a normal experience despite seeing others struggling.

    Stay tuned.
     
    #23 john1701a, Nov 13, 2004
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    Also, I do have a hard time determining the noise level, because the sound is different. It's like the way people respond to HID lights. Some interpret the whiteness as being brighter. Sound can work the same way.

    I've asked another HSD Prius owner what he thought of the sound while riding in mine. His reply was that it was insignificant. So I'm going to just leave it at that. But if I didn't, what would the proper method be for measuring decible levels anyway?
     
    #24 john1701a, Nov 13, 2004
  5. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    Ken, thanks for the wheel data. The OEM wheels are much lighter than I imagined. Good! Oh, part of the reason I chose my size was to get a little better acceleration, so I don't mind the slightly lower effective gear ratio.

    Daniel, glad you're doing it. Like I've posted before, I think tires represent the greatest bang-for-the-buck modification available. If I had to choose between air bags or high performance tires, I'd take the tires every time. They're always working for your safety, actively and passively, with better grip in all conditions. That's why I change them out ASAP. The other benefits like quieter, more controlled ride and handling, longer tread life and sexier looks add icing to the cake. I'm sure you'll really enjoy your HE's, they look like a great choice.

    I know what you mean about the subjective impressions of each brand. Michelin had the same meaning to me until I got a set of Energy's for my GF's '99 Solara. They wore out in 22,000 miles even with proper inflation and rotations, although in fairness they had no tread life warranty. Good thing you won't have to worry about that with your HE's.

    John, I can't wait to try these TT's in snow so I'm going up to Mt. Hood ski area (elevation 5,300') soon and have some fun in their huge parking lot. It'll be Prius vs. deep snow, unless they don't allow me up the access road without chains that day.
     
    #25 amped, Nov 13, 2004
  6. jchu

    jchu New Member

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    Becoming another TT guinea pig today. In Southwest, Idaho the OEM Integrity tires would probably be fine for our driving style but I find that I am going to be making a lot of trips this winter through two somewhat infamous passes between Boise and Seattle, The Blues and Snoqualmie. I trust that the TT's will perform as billed but will also have chains for the truly rough stuff. Went with the TT's instead of the HE's for no particular reason outside of good marketing on Goodyear's part.

    Note:
    The dealer did point out that all things being equal, however, the traction on a 185/... would be better than a 195/... as a smaller width/footprint would mean more pounds per sq in of tire on the road. (TT's don't come in a 185/65 R15 but HE's do) Whatever... :oops:
     
    #26 jchu, Nov 13, 2004
  7. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    Good luck! Your tire dealer is right, narrower is better for snow and ice. Maybe extra air will help to bow the center portion outward for better traction from the snow and ice tread. I've driven those roads in the Winter. I can't imagine a more challenging stretch than the part between La Grande and Cabbage Hill. Your report should be an interesting read, and hopefully be a positive experience in extreme Winter conditions.
     
    #27 amped, Nov 13, 2004
  8. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Orlans: I won't have my HE's for another week yet, so I cannot comment on them. I do plan on running them at 42/40.

    One problem I have is no heated garage. In winter it is outright painful to check and adjust tire pressure. I cannot get the valve stems off with my gloves on, and I am clumsy enough that getting the air nozzle on is tricky even in summer. Then, as often as not, the air pressure gauge does not go on straight, and winds up letting air out.

    And since you're supposed to check the pressure cold, I cannot take the car some place to do it or have it done.
     
    #28 daniel, Nov 14, 2004
  9. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    TripleTred Update:

    - Pressures: After playing with different pressures up and down I believe the sweet spot for this size is 42ff/40rr. Any higher and the fronts tend to slap at expansion joints and the rear is slightly more prone to oversteer during quick transitions encountered in accident avoidance maneuvers. The ride is quiet and supple over expansion joints and potholes, transient response is well controlled, and it's hands-off stable at speed. It's a very comfortable, secure feeling tire.

    - Rain: It poured today and I went out hunting for standing water in the foothills. No worries, it was everywhere. These tires pump an impressive amount of water away from the pavement. There was no excessive side pull when running through moderately deep puddles near the curb side at speeds up to about 60. I looked into the inside review mirror a few times after taking longer, deeper puddles. I could momentarily see the tire tread imprint and pavement before the puddle reformed, that's how well they penetrate and shed deeper water. Then I tried full throttle starts around turns from a standing start and at moderate turn entry with throttle on exit. It took very aggressive control inputs to even get a wink out of TRAC. These grip at least as well as the Potenza RE-950's, a dedicated performance rain tire. Then the kicker was running through my imaginary slalom course at about 50-55 while cranking the wheel side to side as quickly as possible using the arms crossed technique. I could hear the tires making a sort of grinding sound as they dug into the pavement. There was no detectable slip and most impressive was the fact that VSC only intruded (or should I say assisted) once when I really though it would've come on much sooner. Either '05 VSC has a higher threshold for engagement or, more likely, these tires grip so well that no slip was detected by the system.

    After today, I give these tires a well-earned wet grip endorsement at these pressures. Most impressive, possibly even better than the Potenzas. Now I'm looking forward to a snow test, although the Goodyear instructions say the tires work better after wearing in a bit to expose the volcanic ash and glass fiber traction compound in the center tread. I'll call Goodyear corporate direct to see what they consider minimal mileage for optimal snow performance. I read that these tires were in development for six years. I don't know if that's marketing hype, but from what I've experienced so far, it was time (and my cash) well spent.
     
    #29 amped, Nov 16, 2004
  10. jchu

    jchu New Member

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    Thanks for the info. I started at 40ff/38rr on my TT's but haven't had much weather to check them on. First trip through the Blues/Snoqualmie passes will likely be either the 2nd or 3rd week of December. Will report once I have made the run but won't have the VSC :( feedback to assist in my evaluation ('04 pkg #3).


    Regarding breakin for snow traction I expect that to happen rather quickly time-wise, as the trip is 1k miles round trip and I will be making it almost weekly through much of the winter. It should be interesting to see how the traction evolves over that time as well.

    Lastly about tire noise. In Southwest Idaho they have a quaint practice of "chip sealing" all roads. This is done by spraying tar on the asphalt and then spreading 1/4 inch gravel over it. A noisier road surface does not exist. I believe that it has canceled out any advantage over the OEM Integrity's on this measure :cussing: (Not to mention the abuse the car body takes when the stuff comes loose and gets kicked up. :cussing: :cussing: )


    Jon
     
    #30 jchu, Nov 16, 2004
  11. ryogajyc

    ryogajyc Active Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    It looks like a non-answer on a 185/65-15 TT. From Goodyear Customer Relations:

    [hr:6af250924c]
    From: [email protected] on 11/15/2004 08:53 AM

    Sent by: Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company Consumer Relations 728 1144 East Market Street Akron, OH 44316 Voice #: 800.321.2136 Fax #:
    330.796.6829

    Dear Joseph,

    Thank you for contacting our website, and for considering Goodyear for your tire needs.

    At this time we are not aware if Goodyear is planning to manufacture the Assurance Triple Tread in size 185/65R15 now or in the
    future.

    Regards,
    Teresa
    Consumer Relations
    [hr:6af250924c]
     
    #31 ryogajyc, Nov 16, 2004
  12. jfschultz

    jfschultz Active Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

     
    #32 jfschultz, Nov 16, 2004
  13. ryogajyc

    ryogajyc Active Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    My mistake. I meant to say I was given a non-answer, not a no go. Edited my post above.
     
    #33 ryogajyc, Nov 16, 2004
  14. ryogajyc

    ryogajyc Active Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    amped, do you mind if I ask about the details of the cost breakdown? Specifically, the costs of the tires, rebate, trade-in value, and anything else that I might have missed.

    The reason I ask is because I called an America's Tire Co. around here. and they quoted me $510.60 for 4 tires w/ mounting/balancing (I'm not sure if this was with or without tax). After asking them about price-matching to TireRack, it went down to $420 pre-tax. There's a $50 rebate and an unknown trade-in value (have to take it in and ask them to look at it).

    I'm just trying to do a bit of comparison just to make sure I get a decent price. Thanks!
     
    #34 ryogajyc, Nov 23, 2004
  15. amped

    amped Senior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    Joe, sure thing, but first an update:

    Braking: I tested this last because I was waiting for them to fully bed before engaging ABS. On dry it takes a mighty push for any slip to develop and once it does, it's only momentary. I couldn't get VSC to engage with ABS while cranking the wheel from side-to-side quickly. In the wet it was almost the same behavior except ABS was quicker to trigger and VSC would chime in, but the rear never hinted of getting out of shape. Very controllable and predictable tire. The improved, firmer '05 brake pedal feel made max braking easy. I was able to back off ABS while still slowing fairly quickly. Note I said "fairly". The brakes could ultimately be stronger, like the four-wheel disc setup in other markets. Someone posted comparative braking distances that showed the EU car stopped appreciably shorter than the US car, although they have higher performance and wider tires there. Fade resistance was good after five repeated stops from 60-65. The pedal became slightly firmer, just as if they were directly connected like in the "old days".

    Pricing worked like this: I brought the Tire Rack pricing printout into the dealer. They matched @$84/ea. (I see the price is up to $91 today), add $4/ea. S&H (+$16), $10/ea. M&B&RH (+$40), no sales tax in Oregon, gave $40/ea. trade on the Integrity's (-$160), and I got the $50 rebate (-$50), for a net of $182 plus the cost of a day-old box of assorted muffins from the Orowheat outlet for the tire guys. :lol:

    The key negotiating point was the trade-in credit. They started at $30/ea., I asked for $50/ea., and we wound up in the middle. The Integrity's were new, only about 35 miles on them I think. If you look around the web for other tire vendors, you might find a lower price to bring to the dealer. They have to match that, but watch out for S&H, although for me it was cheap because a Goodyear depot is close by. Good luck with your deal, the rebate ends soon. It's a very good tire well suited to Prius.
     
    #35 amped, Nov 23, 2004
  16. ryogajyc

    ryogajyc Active Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    Thanks, amped!

    After all that information, I'm still a bit uncomfortable switching tire sizes. I'm sure they will work well, but I would like to stick with the tire size recommended on the door pillar. Even more important, I may wish to get some expensive snow chain alternatives called Spikes-Spider (for ease of installation and removal). Switching tire sizes means that the sizing for the Spikes-Spider (and I'm guessing snow chains sizes as well--I'll have to look into that) changes.

    This thread seems to suggest that Goodyear will offer 185/65-15 TripleTreds in the near future, since the size is a common one.

    I hope there are other people interested in TripleTreds in this size. If you are, please check out this thread.
     
    #36 ryogajyc, Nov 24, 2004
  17. norbert

    norbert New Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    You people are costing me money!

    I took my two-day old Prius in today and had the tires replaced with the TT's. The ratings on TireRack.com helped convince me too.
     
    #37 norbert, Nov 26, 2004
  18. jchu

    jchu New Member

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    Maybe, but then maybe we get to keep you around this forum a bit longer :p
     
    #38 jchu, Nov 26, 2004
  19. ryogajyc

    ryogajyc Active Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    I switched over to 195/60-15 TTs today. I decided to go ahead and take advantage of the $50 Goodyear rebate (which expires tomorrow, 11/27, BTW). I got them at America's Tire Co (same thing as Discount Tire Co) and they also had a $25 MIR if you sign up for their credit card. Pricematching with TireRack got me to down to $105 per tire (which included mounting, balancing, road hazard, and tire stems) and I got $60 (total) for my old tires. Not much, but I had a few thousand miles on them.

    Basically, I wanted to take advantage of the MIR before it expired. Plus, the TTs (HydroEdge and ComforTreds are too) are considered snow tires by the CA DOT, which means that in R1 chain control situations (the only one I've seen before), I ok in my TTs!

    They put 32/30 psi and torqued them to 80 lbs. I just discovered that the spec is 76 lbs. Is this ok? I read that over-torquing a nut actually makes it less "tight" (I don't know the proper term). I don't have a feel for if 4 lbs. is enough to be considered over-torqued, even. I got them up to 42/40 psi and tomorrow I'm going to see if they are any quieter at high speeds. With the Integritys, grooved highways caused a good deal of road noise. I hope this lessens that.
     
    #39 ryogajyc, Nov 27, 2004
  20. priusenvy

    priusenvy Senior Member

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    Re: Installed Goodyear Assurance TripleTred's Today

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ryogajyc\";p=\"52942)</div>
    The stock Goodyear Integritys are M&S rated, so they're considered "snow" tires too.

    You must drive on different roads than I do. I've been going to Tahoe in the winter on I-80 and US-50 for twenty years, and I've only ever seen R2 conditions (chains required except for 4WD with snow tires).
     
    #40 priusenvy, Nov 27, 2004
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