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Imus in the Hot Seat

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by dbermanmd, Apr 10, 2007.

  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 26 2007, 08:48 AM) [snapback]430428[/snapback]</div>
    Not sure I completely got your post...
    I think there are a couple things...if you wish to define "censorship" in a legal sense based upon constitutional arguements and such then I don't think there's any way you could call the Imus situation censorship. If you prefer a more loose definition then you could consider my not being allowed to say the F, N & B words censorship. If youi opt for the loose definition then you really water down the importance of "real" censorship in the more strict sense b/c the smooth functioning of a civilized society requires some element of mutual respect and consideration for those around you.

    I can't use those words b/c it would offend the people I work with and take care of and, thus, reflect poorly upon the hospital and maybe even the entire profession of medicine. When I'm at my annual trout fishing trip with my old college buds I'm quite certain the F and B words, at least, will leave my mouth multiple times during that week. Those I'm around know me, won't generalize the use to the hospital or the entire practice of medicine.

    So yea, by a loose definition Imus's show is being censored. I'm being censored at my work. We sensor music on the radio and we censor TV.... and I'm absolutely OK with that. I think it makes our world a better place. It's a civil matter.

    But if the gobmt. tries to stop me from using those words when I'm in the privacy of my home or in an environment where there are not business influences then it becomes a constitutional/legal matter and it needs to be most heartily resisted.

    I know that your concern is the gray areas and that that gray area may be gradually slipping toward more restriction even on the civil side...I share that concern to some degree and think we need to be very careful when we start 'banning' words from music, or banning paintings/art that might offend...if we cover up/hide restrict those more extreme views I think we could get into serious trouble down the road.
     
  2. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 26 2007, 10:05 AM) [snapback]430440[/snapback]</div>
    sunlight is the best disinfectant - i think brandeis said that - but it remains the best advice on can give about free speech
     
  3. larkinmj

    larkinmj New Member

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  4. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    not terribly surprising... it is 40 million dollars, after all.
     
  5. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 3 2007, 10:16 AM) [snapback]434694[/snapback]</div>
    LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT

    I cannot wait to see what CBS says - by the looks of Imus's contract it looks like CBS is on the short side of this argument.

    consider perhaps cbs rehiring him?????? :)
     
  6. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    You read a 1/2 page article and suddenly know everything about his contract?

    You're jumping to conclusions here, my good doctor... Imus won't be rehired - although he may win the money, but that is no guarantee.
     
  7. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ May 3 2007, 10:39 AM) [snapback]434714[/snapback]</div>
    true about his contract - but - cbs knew exactly who they were hiring when they signed imus on the dotted line - he had nearly a 3 decade career of doing his schtick.

    tell me - you have a choice - pay out $40million PLUS damages or rehire???????
     
  8. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    They don't have that choice, Berman. Plain and simple. Given that you don't understand that, i wonder how much you actually understand...

    They fired him. It's done, the contract is breached. Even if they rehired him, the contract would still be breached.

    Furthermore, rehiring him would be the absolute worst thing they could do. He has gotten such bad press, and their firing him was seen as morally correct but a huge percentage of the US. If they rehired him, they would lose a ton of viewers and sponsors. It would be a nightmare for them. Instead, they'll go into court and fight it out. If they win, they'll come out of the court room and tell the world "What Imus said was horrible, we don't condone it, and the courts just backed us up." If Imus wins, then they still come out, only this time they say "what Imus said was horrible, and the Rutgers team didn't deserve that. the 40 million we were just ordered to pay is a small price to pay to ensure that this level of depravity is off the air." Either way, it's a huge marketing bonus for them, and increases their ratings.
     
  9. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ May 3 2007, 10:55 AM) [snapback]434725[/snapback]</div>
    i hope you are not an attorney or negotiator.

    and obviously to you $40 Million is chump change. tell me F Lee, how much damages could be awarded to Mr. Imus by the courts if he were found to be correct in his ascertations? And would you not advise your client [cbs] to minimize losses if they could? and since when did they fire imus over airwaves decency - he was never "decent" on the airwaves - ever. he was just a very decent human being who raised over #100 MILLLLLION for charities - what does that tell you (this is a sidebar).

    how much does cbs spend on marketing? increase their ratings ??? why dont you check out where their ratings go without imus - hint here - what happend to the stations carrying stern when he left - and wasn't he a "decent" guy on the airwaves too????
     
  10. Proco

    Proco Senior Member

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    I'm betting this never sees the inside of a courtroom. CBS & Imus will reach some kind of settlement where Imus gets some money (whether it's the full 40 mil or not, who knows) and neither side admits fault for their respective roles.
     
  11. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ May 3 2007, 11:25 AM) [snapback]434748[/snapback]</div>
    love your bumper sticker and agree with you wholeheartedly. This never gets close to a courtroom because both sides will have too much to lose and both can, if possible, turn this into a win-win situation....

    imus can now work towards cleaning up the airwaves and at the same time getting revenge if he wants to, cbs will pay some sort of damages with the $ going to an Imus charity(tax deductible of course) or a new "keep the airwaves clean" organization..... i can c it now......
     
  12. larkinmj

    larkinmj New Member

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    I’m interested in the outcome of this. My understanding is that Imus' defense rests upon this clause in his contract:

    Imus claims that he was fired for making a remark that was "irreverent" and "controversial", even though that is what he was contracted to do.

    I was in a similar situation myself. I wrote a weekly column for a local newspaper. The editor knew of my political activism and read a similar column that I wrote for another paper. He explicitly asked me to go after my targets "full barrel". The name of the column was, "Where's the Outrage", so there was no question about its controversial nature. Now the objects of my wrath were George W. Bush, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, etc.; not women basketball players, so I don't know if Dr. Berman would equally defend my right to free expression. The publisher of this paper, who has acquired a number of formerly independent small newspapers in my state, fired the editor and replaced him with a kid right out of college, and proceeded to micromanage the paper. I was then told my column was axed. I only had a verbal agreement, not a contract, and my pay was a tiny fraction of what Imus got. But if Imus is successful, maybe I'll hire the same lawyer to sue the paper on the grounds that I was fired for doing what the editor asked me to do. I'd be happy to settle for only, say, $4 million. :)
     
  13. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 3 2007, 01:45 PM) [snapback]434848[/snapback]</div>
    i would defend anyone's right to free speech including yours. i hope you have similar clause in your contract with your newspaper that mr imus has in his with cbs. i feel terrible you lost your column - honestly - not right. How is your suit proceding? I admire you sticking by your beliefs too and broadcasting them.

    best of luck.

    David
     
  14. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 3 2007, 10:10 AM) [snapback]434736[/snapback]</div>
    They very well may settle. Thats really not for me to say. however, my point stands that they won't hire him back.

    As for ratings... check this out:
    Feb:
    http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/nielsen.htm
    Last week:
    http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/ne...sens-charts.htm


    A summary, if you will, of the top 20 watched shows in America:

    Feb April
    ABC 4 6
    CBS 9 10
    FOX 5 3
    NBC 2 1


    Seems to me that CBS is still doing just fine without Imus. I can promise you that bad media if they hire Imus back will lower their ratings.
     
  15. larkinmj

    larkinmj New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 3 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]434855[/snapback]</div>
    I appreciate your kind words. And my comment that I might sue as well was purely in jest. In my case, I didn't have a contract, and legally I'm sure the publisher had the right to terminate my column at any time. And as writing is not my primary occupation, my livelihood wasn't affected.
    What I think is most unfortunate about my situation is not that my column was terminated, but that it was a consequence of a formerly independent newspaper being acquired by a corporation. This is representative, on a small scale, of what is happening all over the country with our print and broadcast media. Regardless of what one's political perspective is, I think that it's sad that independent voices are dissapearing and that everything (including music) has become homogenized. While the internet may not always be a reliable source of information, at least it is one refuge remaining for diverse and dissenting voices.
    And I really think it's important that everyone has a voice- yes, even the right wing. I even listen to them- honestly. Last night, for instance (after coming home from a great talk that environmentalist Bill McKibben gave at a nearby library), I attempted to watch Glenn Beck's special on CNN about how global warming is just hype. But when he cited the Oregon Petition as "evidence" that global warming is a hoax, I was yelling so loud that my wife made me change the channel. But at least I tried! :)

    p.s. I forgot to mention that the newspaper in question has a new editor who called me recently to say that their circulation was suffering, and that she might want to bring my column back (I used to get both supportive and angry letters to the editor, both of which are good from their perspective). I'm also talking to a larger newspaper. So I may be back soon.
     
  16. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ May 3 2007, 02:30 PM) [snapback]434871[/snapback]</div>
    are you promising me lower taxes too :lol:
    at least now you are making some sense in that cbs might settle - nice :D
    if it saves cbs tens of millions of $'s, they will hire him back too - truth.
    is that the tv portion or his radio show #'s
     
  17. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 3 2007, 02:39 PM) [snapback]434876[/snapback]</div>
    My son who is a senior in college started a new newspaper on campus this year - one with a conservative point of view that had representation from both sides of the ideological fence.

    The dean of students "lynched" him in that the dean defunded it, had him brought up on spurious charges and had him voted off the student senate(after being on it his entire college career), delayed the mailing of his dean's letters to the law schools he was applying to, amongst other bad and inappropriate stuff.

    the school newspaper attacked him (mind you he got their permission to start his new one and was on the school newspaper for years and was on it at the same time he started his new one), libeled and slandered him, printed anti-semetic pictures associated with the articles attacking him, and in other ways failed to live up to the standards of practice for the print media much less abide by the laws of the state of NY and the US constitution.

    all this happened this semester and continues as we "speak".
     
  18. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    TV, i don't know where to go to get radio numbers, and truthfully, more money is made by TV than radio.

    I was never saying they wouldn't settle, just that they wouldn't hire him back. I don't think he wants that, either. We'll see, 6 months from now, what happens. You'll be eating your words.
     
  19. larkinmj

    larkinmj New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 3 2007, 03:26 PM) [snapback]434931[/snapback]</div>
    That's unfortunate. Every university has its own policy for funding student activities, but supporting a student newspaper should never have anything to do with its political viewpoint. If the school paper chooses to criticize the opinions your son expresses in his paper, that's fair play. But personal attacks are not (I wish some of the other folks in FHOP would get this distinction- I know you do). And it is very sorry that they had to resort to anti-semitism; that should be beneath any academic institution.
    While I think that the issue of "academic freedom" is often blown out of proportion, I understand that conservative college students often feel that they don't have the same freedom to express their opinions (I went to Penn and Brown; two of the arguably more liberal universities). What the students on the school paper should realize is that when students such as your son challenge them by making them confront opposing points of view, it is for their own benefit- they will become more adept at defending their own beliefs.
    I hope your son is able to get into the law school of his choice despite the obstacles, and that he does well. You can probably use a good lawyer in the family! :D
     
  20. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ May 3 2007, 04:01 PM) [snapback]434955[/snapback]</div>
    Thank you for your well wishes for my boy - he has gotten into several fine law schools - three of them offered him full paid free scholarships for the entire ride - he is also going to for a combined JD/MBA program just to make it interesting for himself. He will be far from the first attorney in the family - he will be joining several generations of attorneys - for better or worse :)

    This issue has escalated to the attorney level already and there is little doubt my boy is going to get a taste of the legal system perhaps even before he starts law school - as will the people who libeled/slandered/defamed his charachter. This has been an unfortunate happenstance for him and it will become a very unfortunate happenstance for those who did this too him. I, along with our attornery am shocked at the lack of university oversight - in fact university based participation - in this whole ordeal. Instead of promoting diversity of thought, free speech, a students impressive accomplishments (it is not easy birthing a newspaper from scratch and in fact his newspaper overtook the schools 60 year old paper in terms of print volume and contributors), his leadership activities - they went about DESTROYING him. There will be a price to pay for all those involved - trust me/him.

    again, thanks for your thoughts - i always have beleived things end up working out for the best. i am truly sorry to see what happened to you too.

    have a nice weekend.

    david