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I'm Too Old To Fix These Things

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Sam Stone, Apr 29, 2020.

  1. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    Thanks for the support, guys. I have enough experience in the healthcare industry to know when I'm whining and of course, I'm a terrible patient. Unfortunately, it seems like I'm an even worse mechanic. A few months ago I replaced the coolant flow control valve and the container (I'm not looking the correct verbiage up again--I think I'm close).

    Happy car. Then, not so happy. All the lights including the triangle of death came back on. So I replaced the 12V and bled the coolant again.

    Happy car. For one day. Now, not so happy. I've followed the great advice you guys have given, and learned a lot. Such as I'm definitely as bad at working on cars as I thought but I don't remember all the right terminology. I can live with that, but after 10 years working on the car this week I'd really like to see something last longer than just over night. Now it's added a few new twists and I saw another thread somewhere that talked about the symptoms.
    --red triangle
    --Christmastime level light show on dash when it's running
    --sometimes it won't let me put it in gear, sometimes it will
    --the alarm has started going off randomly. Once with me under the hood!!
    --sometimes I get p1121, sometimes I get p1122 with the scanner. It resets easily and runs very well, when it lets me put it in gear
    --no heater. I know I saw that in another thread with similar problems.

    That's my light reading for today. I assume you can tell I'm struggling with cabin fever, so I'm not getting much socializing. I did get calls when the Covid-19 started up because that was probably my strong point in 35 years in healthcare. I put the stats together for them at the beginning of February and unfortunately I haven't missed a marker yet.

    So they quit calling. Now my family and you guys are all I've got. Can a very poor, old, fat, bald, gray, Mexican looking white guy fix this or do I put my mask on and go rob a bank so I can afford to have someone do it for me?

    Thanks for the time you guys give so altruistically.
     
  2. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Not wanting to rock a boat that is getting some very helpful responses from everyone but me.....

    But, is it time to post about the various woes under a more "mechanical title" under the G2 Care/Main./Troubleshooting forum.

    May get more helpful replies -- not that I am knocking the replies you have so far.....Hmm, time for me to go back to cleaning the kitchen (yuck!)
    kris
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    This is a peeve of mine too: it'd be nice if there was a disclaimer at top of newbie forum: "Please, keep this forum for introductions and very basic questions. Technical questions post in the appropriate forum."

    @Tideland Prius ?
     
  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I've been trying to catch the newbie posts that are moderated and move them to the appropriate forum before they appear. Guess a few slipped through the cracks.
     
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  5. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    I have no problem being rerouted and, in fact, would appreciate it. My personal "defense mechanism" dealing with the after effects of a debilitating stroke is to try and see the lighter side of obstacles, hence the possibly inappropriate title. I'm now mentally as well as physically incapable of contributing as much as I take, but be assured I am grateful. So Mr. North moderator, would you please help me address this in the best, correct manner? Apologies for rubbing anyone the wrong way. I own that responsibility, but can't promise it won't happen again. I will try to remember getting it right, though.

    Thanks to all.
     
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Oh no worries. We've moved it to the Gen 2 Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting forum for you. They're referring to the fact that a lot of new members will (naturally) gravitate to the "Newbie" forum to introduce themselves but perhaps also ask a question in that forum that might be better served in a more specific one elsewhere on the website.
     
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  7. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    Thanks to everyone who have offered advice. Unfortunately, I'm still poor, still not healthy, and still unable to get the car running. For us, it is financially impossible to turn it over to a shop. If anyone has experience with the problems I mention below, I would very much appreciate helping me be responsible to my family's needs.

    --red triangle
    --Christmastime level light show on dash when it's running
    --sometimes it won't let me put it in gear, sometimes it will
    --the alarm has started going off randomly. Once with me under the hood!!
    --sometimes I get p1121, sometimes I get p1122 with the scanner. It resets easily and runs very well, when it lets me put it in gear
    --no heater. I know I saw that in another thread with similar problems.

    The big boy battery has less than 40,000 miles on it, we just replaced the 12V battery, coolant control valve, and storage with no luck. There appears to be good circulation in the overflow tank but possibly not in the radiator. The lights reset easily enough and it ran for months after replacing the coolant valve, but not anymore. Sorry to repeat myself, but even though we still love the car, I'm disabled because of a stroke and as badly as we need the car, disability checks won't let us take it to a repair shop. The ones I've spoken to understandably can't diagnose the cause of the issues by phone, but we've already spent over $200 to get wildly differing opinions from shops with better scanners, none of which are affordable.

    Again, we would be grateful for any and all suggestions. I'm physically limited, but usually that only means I'm slow, but capable. Thanks again for your time.
     
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I haven't re-read the whole thread just now, so I'll just ask: have you arranged for any access to the repair manual, or even just to the ten pages in it about the P112x codes? That would help you a lot with picturing what is going on. Elektroingenieur put together a wiki page with a lot of options for how to get access. Straight from Toyota isn't expensive ($20) but there may also be free options through a library.

    Do you, or someone in your family, have a multimeter (and know how to use it to troubleshoot electrical issues)?

    The codes you're seeing are not fundamentally about whether coolant has been bled or not. They relate to electrical issues between the car and the sensor that tells it what position the valve is in.

    There were electrical connections that you had to undo to replace the valve and tank, and reconnect after. Sometimes after years of exposure to environment, handling those connections can leave them flaky.

    P1122 is a purely electrical condition, seeing less than 0.2 volts as the sensor output, which is outside of its normal range and should never be seen.

    P1121 is failure of a more functional check, either that the sensor reading changes when the car tries to move the valve (as it should), or that the water temperature changes when the valve position should have that result.

    Naturally, a basic electrical fault like what P1122 reports likely will also show up in the functional check represented by P1121.

    Troubleshooting that kind of stuff is tedious but straightforward, down there with a multimeter moving methodically to see how far the correct signal gets and where it stops. The ten pages from the manual will help with testing ideas. It's possible the repair could involve some wire splicing, but not necessarily. It's impossible to say what will need to be fixed until someone has been there with a meter to find out what's what.

    Your 'no heat' observation isn't baffling; in one of the valve's three positions, there isn't flow to the heater. Doesn't change the game plan, anyway. Have to find out why the car can't read the valve position.
     
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  9. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    Awesome, and thank you. I will get into all of the above right away. You obviously put a considerable amount of time in your post and I want to personally assure you I won't abuse that courtesy. It's raining a lot today, but I'll return and let you know the results after I get those pages and put your suggestions to work. Lastly, I don't know if you would realize it, but this is actually very encouraging and affirms my thoughts it could be electrical AND I needed better access to manuals. I'll go find the manual now.

    Thanks again.
     
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  10. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    I made another mistake and relearned an old lesson. Now I remember why I don't take those stronger pain meds for my back. I'm just getting my brane working again after taking that stoopid pill almost 24 hours ago. From now on I prefer just letting it hurt.

    I looked at the incredible wiki page write-up and am astounded at the degree of effort people go to in helping minions like myself. My question is do you recommend a specific place to start on the wiki page? There's a bunch of info and I want to troubleshoot in the most logical sequence. Also, I'm 62 years old and just bought my first floor jack because both of our cars have problems. Crank, crank, crank, crank, crank, etc manufacturer's jacks suck. To me, my new toy is magic!! I want to go outside in the rain and just jack the van up, let it back down, jack the Prius up, let it down, and repeat.

    We have decided I get one more shot at the Prius then, if unsuccessful we will take it to a Prius doctor for a precise diagnosis. I have a basic OBD2, but I've seen the info about Techstream which I think I would like to have for the future because we love and want to keep the Prius. We've always babied it and it's sad to see it sick. Do you or someone you know have a recommendation for an affordable but effective scanner/dongle/connector?
    So:
    *my brane is making a comeback
    *I have the new jack
    *I recently picked up a much better set of sockets and drill bits at a price poor people can afford
    *we're willing to get Techstream
    *the Prius and the van are kindly giving me a chance to use all of the above
    *you guys are such great encouraging supporters

    I'm severiously ready to go!!! Wife says I have to wait until it stops raining, though, or she'll put me in time out. Good thing I'm the boss around here.

    BTW, where do I put the floor jack under the front of a 2006 Prius? Don't worry, I already have jack stands. I just don't want to lift the engine through the hood by accident.

    Thanks again!!!
    ps: please don't tell me I can't use the new floor jack yet!!
     
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  11. ttou68

    ttou68 Active Member

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  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Second Gen Owner's Manual, page 358:

    upload_2020-5-16_15-16-34.png

    It's not all that clear, but I recall someone here saying the front jacking point is quite a way back. Maybe far enough that you need to run the front onto low rise ramps first, to give you enough room to operate the jack's lifting handle effectively? It looks to be on the main cross beam, towards the back of the engine compartment. Looks like the the exhaust (or catalytic converter) just beyond the jacking point on beam.

    For safety stands: yes, Owner's Manual show four points on the crimped seam running along the body sides, under the door sills. But, just my 2 cents, while those are effective for scissor jack, they're poor for safety stands. I find them barely stable, and weak. This is a third gen pic, but I believe very similar to 2nd gen, with my preferred safety stand locations. The front end locations I actually took Hobbit's advice (a Prius fanactic):

    upload_2020-5-16_15-25-41.png
    Front is to the right.
     
    #32 Mendel Leisk, May 16, 2020
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Do you have a multimeter, and/or some experience using one?

    I have a feeling this particular diagnosis is going to come down to some old-fashioned electrical gumshoe work.

    Techstream will give you information confirming the gumshoe work needs to be done, but there will be rolled-up sleeves and a multimeter after that.
     
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  14. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    Yes, I do have multiple multimeters. Can you tell me what AC or DC means?

    Just kidding, but I do have the multimeters and I'm not afraid to ask if I don't understand specific instructions.

    Thanks for anything you can recommend.
     
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  15. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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  16. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    As soon as the wife and weather (in that order) lets me go outside I'm going to put your kindness to work.

    Thank you for having sympathy for what my friend's wife calls a real dumbhead. However, since we live in Texas that's a 3 syllable word, pronounced "dumm-hey-id."

    Thanks again.
     
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  17. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    I wish they would do that then we could steer posters to the same old stuff we tell them every day.

    Wish they also had a hybrid battery rebuild forum listing too everyone sooner or later starts looking for battery rebuild/purchase info.
     
  18. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    I want to let you know it appears you may be right about electrical issues. Car ran fine for a day, then the check engine light came on for the second day, and the third day, as expected, the red triangle came back and it wouldn't start. 12V showed 13 with the multimeter, but not even the dome lights came on. I fiddled around, not having a clue, and suddenly it all came to life.

    Are you aware if there is a specific fuse, relay, or some place where I should start and work backwards? I'm getting double p1122s and the 1121 is now awol. I'm thinking about putting my son's track shoes on, pushing it to the nearest dealer, and just being honest with them about not being able to afford their repair prices. All things considered, it makes sense to pay them to track the culprit with their super duper scanners, then see if it's something I can figure out, right? Hopefully they are capable of narrowing it to not more than one or two possibilities instead of my failed bumper to bumper psychic guesswork.

    As always, your input is invaluable.
     
  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    At this point it's not down to super duper scanners. What they can do has already been done. Now it's down to an old-fashioned multimeter, the repair manual, the wiring diagram, and patient methodical checking. I could say more about that but I'd just be repeating what I said in #28.

    Have you checked the wiki page I mentioned there to see how you can arrange access to the repair manual and wiring diagram?
     
  20. Sam Stone

    Sam Stone Member

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    I did but got lost. This is an after effect from my stroke. Some days I can't make sense out of the alphabet song and the next I'm working complex physics problems with my son. It is excruciatingly frustrating and absolutely the single most obstructive reason preventing my ability to return to the workforce. I will revisit the wiki and your generous advice repeatedly until I can absorb the material comprehensively. In the past my inconsistent ability to read even short excerpts or watch very short videos and learn has understandably caused others to grow impatient with me so I want you to know I'm persistent and will respect your good guidance. Thank you for not giving up on me.