Featured I don't want an EV. I want an affordable plug-in hybrid that doesn't look stupid. Rocket science?

my % is based on the number of travel trips not mileage.

When we decided to relocate 40 years ago we were very particular about where we were moving.

We were moving from an isolated rural area to a somewhat more urban area to take advantage of an offered job opportunity.

There were a number of wonderful cities/communities to choose from when we settled in the area.

One of the primary consideration factors was transportation/driving and the ability to not have to drive distances to get what we wanted. It is not by accident or fate we can walk or bike to where we need to go.

One of the primary drivers of having a variety of transportation choices is a person's lifestyle as well as where and how they chose to live.

sylvaing I too am retired and enjoy riding the bike or walking to the library/post office/store etc. at my leisure talking to people along the way and just generally enjoying the trip there and back. I have some saddle bags on my bike to store purchases from the store in so I can take the bike to and from the store. Walking and bike riding have been activities I have enjoyed since childhood and throughout my life.

 

Does those numbers (if true) prove that over the entire range of choices for EV fuel that EVs beat ICE in every case since there is not a single EV that would, on average, not last far more than 68K miles.

Imagine this same logic if applied to insulating a new home. The contractor says that he can make you a cheaper house just by leaving out all the insulation! His claim is that if you only plan on living there for 2-4 years (just an example) your savings will more than pay for the outrageous heating bills you'll have.

Mike

 

Yes, that's my take on it. The only car not beating ICE in total emissions are those totaled before reaching that milestone. Even then, if the battery isn't damaged, it can be recycled into another car or has a standalone power bank emergency backup supply.

 

Except in some special use case as I outlined in my hypothetical annual 2k miles pickup. Buying a BEV in my scenario would put more emissions overall.

 

unless you bought a used one?

 

Well, $25k BEV pickup is just a hypothetical car. Even if we stretch our imagination and I can buy a used BEV pickup for that price, my logic would still hold in favor of buying an ICE pickup for overall less emission.

Remember, I am comparing hypothetical pickup for 2k annual miles. If I don't buy an ICE pickup, then someone else is going to buy it and drive it 15kmiles every year until it dies.

Yes, an used BEV with more than 68k miles on it would have already won carbon reduction race compared to an ICE vehicle. But to reduce the harmful effects of combustion engine emissions, those ICE vehicles still left for operation should go to a user like me who will drive far less than average, until all gasser vehicles are purged from the system.

Applying the same logic, to maximize the benefit, BEVs should go to someone who must drive a lot of annual miles like fleet, not to some individual who only drives it a few thousand miles annually.

 

a used bev and ice would eliminate the cradle to death footprint and only compare fuels, no?

 

Race may be over. But as long as ICE vehicle still runs, it continues to emit. Less miles on ICE and longer miles on BEV will further reduce the overall emissions. Until all ICE vehicles are gone.

 

So would buying a new ICE one. Which isn't that unlikely.

Your scenario only results in more overall emissions if you buy a new BEV, and keep it, just driving 2000 miles a year until it is no longer road worthy. How likely is that? Is it more likely that you will end up selling it before it reaches end of life? To someone that will drive it more miles, and grateful to find a low mile used BEV they couldn't afford new.

Then the $25k used ICE trucks I'm seeing are mostly of mileages and ages that someone with that money and needing a daily driver for 15k miles a year may not consider. The other person that got it instead of you may drive it more that you would, but far less than you estimate.

Not saying you are wrong for your case, but individual situations can't be used to base general policy to make improvements. Right now BEV trucks are expensive. Even if they don't drive it much, better someone that can afford it buys one. That is one more on the road and in the fleet. The odds are it stick around long enough to result in lower life time emissions that if original owner bought a new ICE truck.

 

The cheap 2,000 mile/year pickup truck situation only ever existed because there used to be a surplus of affordable vehicles. People could get new(er) ones without necessarily trading in the old ones.

It's a condition that needs to be grown into; doesn't happen overnight. Won't come back for a long time if ever.

 

i got a new 2005 dodge dakota for 18k and put an average of less than 2,000 miles a year on it.
sold it a few months ago fo 6k

 

I drove in front of my local GM dealer this AM and their lot was filled with trucks. Ditto used car lots around here. No interest so I didn't go in and look at prices. But my take is there are lot of repossessed trucks around from people who got overextended.

Amazing the average new car price is now above $45k.

The CT gets 245 miles range in a single road test.

And Toyota raises prices $250 on average starting in Feb.

 

My hypothetical pickup is for a long haul. Yes, it is possible that I may sell it later, but the assumption is I will drive it ~2kmiles/yr for the life of the vehicle which is likely to be 10 to 15 years top in our climate. I am not trying to make a general policy for everyone, but in my specific use case, the more I think about it, buying an ICE pickup is a better choice than buying a BEV pickup... But again, this is only on a hypothetical $25K BEV pickup... which does not exist in reality.

Cheap bearbone pickup trucks do exist today. Just that it is not available in the US. If this $10,000 Toyota pick up is on a local dealer's lot, I would be buying it today.

First Drive: Toyota's $10,000 Pickup Truck Is Perfect. So, Why Are We Sad?

You should have sold it to me... then I would have made sure to continue to use it as a very low annual mileage gasser to lower the emission impact as you have used it. I hope the person who bought it from you is not driving it as a daily driver. BTW, I just checked Car Guru. 2004 Tacoma long bed with 185K miles on it with a rusted rocker panel is for sale at $6K. And it is a bargain, according to Car Guru about $4K below the market value. LOL

 

unfortunately, i had t for sale at the end of my driveway for 2 years with no takers.
the low miles didn't increase the kbb very much over much higher vehicles. i actually discouraged many parents who wanted to send their kids off to college in it.
most lookers wanted 4wd for plowing. the guy that bought it was a scammer who put it on craigs list the next day for 11k. idk what he got, but it disappeared after a couple months.

 

Most of those won't pass USA safety. Some won't pass emissions either.

And either way, your local dealer is 1000% convinced he can upsell you into a 1-ton chassis with the Oligarch package, kung-fu grips and powered floor mats so he wouldn't dare order anything smaller from the manufacturer.

 

Yeah, for the same reason we don't see street legal Kei truck here. But... I may go for this $2,000 made-in-China BEV mini-truck. I don't think it is street-legal, but... if people can drive a tractor on a public road, why not this BEV?

Two years after buying my $2,000 electric truck from China, here’s how it looks now

 

I read that as another vote for travel lane segregation. Keep the pedestrians away from the cyclists, another lane for the skaters and scooters, another for the golf-carts and keis, then cars, then public transportation, then commercial/delivery/construction/agriculture...

 

Safety is why the original little, affordable Ranger was cancelled. Redesigning it to meet current standards was going to inflate the price too much, and keeping it the same size was harder for meeting CAFE targets.

Maybe look into utility golf carts or other similar little EVs. They've been around for sometime, so getting a used one could be easier than self importing something.

His other article, The complete guide to NEVs, LSVs, micro-cars & golf carts: Part 1

 

Yeah, but my needs are being able to haul lumbers and boards from a local lumber yard and bags of feeds and bales of straws from a feed store. Being able to drive legally on public street is one requirement, but the vehicle also has to be able to handle driving on unpaved recently cleared wooded lot with many tree stumps still intact.

ATV wood be a good choice, but I don't know any that is street legal.

 

OK what size bed would you need? How far is the nearest feed/lumber store?source? And you want raised chassis too? I have a friend up the street who is dying. Has a 1970s full size pickup in his driveway. 200k plus miles. Still gets the job done on a 1000k per year basis. Gota be similar out there. But you start to get into stump clearing and you now are into boy tots and look-at-me prices. Heck I have seen tires and wheels that together would cost about what you want to spend.