Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

So, I dropped by Fremont Hyundai to have a look at on Ioniq, really, to see if I fit in it so I could come back and say, more pooh on Toyota. Salesguy says 'we're out of stock on them'. What a joke. After all the recent sing-song commercials and a mailer yesterday.
Just as well, I'll pass on the 0 to 60 in 10+ seconds cars anyway.

Sat in Bolt again. Nice. Good for GM. Well laid out, sharp car. Bit much for me now, but perhaps someday a Bolt or Model 3 will work.

 

People will buy the Ioniq instead of the Prius because it's not a Prius. Eventually, people will understand that it is ok to have a cool looking car and not have to spend $300 to $500 a week in gasoline. Meanwhile, Toyota will keep trying to make their Hybrid vehicles both fast and efficient.

 

"Meanwhile, Toyota will keep trying to make their Hybrid vehicles both fast and efficient."

I'd like to add "as well as attractive."
I believe that Toyota has achieved a remarkable vehicle in the Prius technologically. I wish they would work now on sound deadening (road noise), and hopefully the next generation will be more attractive.

The Ioniq is an attractive vehicle, ... but it just does not match the Prius mechanically (based on all I have read).
Fortunately, I do not need to make a purchase anytime soon, so I can wait for my reservation on a Tesla model 3 to mature (estimated to be later in 2018).

 

If you are talking about the Prius, I think many don't want a cool looking car. Even if they like the style, it may not be something they want to live with. I like orange and purple, but I'm not going to paint my house those colors.

 

Here is a review of the ioniq hybrid and a preview of the plug-in and electric car. The reviewer (from the New York Times) likes the car but says it has less visibility than the Prius. The Prius has less visibility than what I would like, and I can't see getting a car with even less.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/automobiles/autoreviews/video-review-with-new-ioniq-hyundai-goes-after-prius.html

 

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I would say go test drive one at some point, both cars have pluses and minuses, it is difficult to do a direct comparison as in some respects they are so different

starting to get meaningful numbers on fuelly but still not enough to provide definitive number, but one thing I see on the dark side is many owners reporting close to or exceeding EPA figures where as many journalists struggle to get within 10mpg of the figures

and interesting one was Hypermiling in a Hybrid Gets the Competitive Juices Flowing » AutoGuide.com News

he drove the prius for a while then immediately drove the Ioniq for same time

 

I just knew I should've added bold or bright to that statement.

That could be said of the Prius for most of its life.

You can drive any car for efficiency, but something about a hybrid makes doing so more engaging.

 

All the data feedback adds to the experience, as well

0PJA2 ?

 

I think many journalist try and drive hybrids like a hot hatch and wonder why they don't get the economy, the journalist in that article did in effect the best back to back test over a reasonable distance bi have seen, in the end I would say the difference is probable within the margin of error so pretty closely matched, only thing missing is where he got the mpg figures from was it calculated or onboard trip computer?

 

With 'half a tank' on each, he could have done it by hand and gotten reasonable numbers.

Bob Wilson

 

I don't think toyota is trying for any acceleration in the prius or prime or prius c (aqua). There are little things that they could do easily in a sport mode and higher rpm limit in engine, and more electrical boost recharge to improve. They don't seem to want that, because fun to drive may have people driving them in ways with poorer fuel economy.

I don't think they need to do that though. There camry hybrid and derivitives in the avalon, Lexus ES, Rav4 and Lexus Nx have good acceleration. Profit margins are probably better on this in the US anyway. They do need to do more in the next version hybrid and derivatives if they want to increase there hybrid market share in the us. This includes refining the hybrid system to better response, better brake feel, and better cvt feeling software outside of eco mode (eco mode is proper to boost efficiency even if its 0.5 mpg at the expense of feel and response). They can look at competitors products and probably add these things fairly easily now. In japan with higher tax incentives (including gasoline and pollution taxes) for hybrids, the market share is huge for hybrids, and I'm not sure if it will ever be big in Europe or china, no matter what they do.

I do think toyota should build a dedicated phev car and a dedicated phev truck, targeted to the US. The hsd system seems well optimized for hybrid only, but the prius prime seems a little compromised by the system and thinking. PHEV trucks will probably start to sell really well in about 5 years as cafe incentives increase, gasoline prices rise again, and costs of batteries continue to fall. In a truck phev seems to make a lot more sense than hybrid, as there is much more possible savings from regen braking, and downsizing of engine if you add a bigger battery. 10 kwh should be sufficient to greatly improve mpg even after the battery is drained to minimum for acceleration minimum charge (and I think users should be allowed to lower this to safe charge with an electrical boost button ;-) These vehicles if done right might sell well in China and Japan as well.

I too am waiting for the tesla model 3 ... I'm hoping my reservation in the first day is fufilled in about a year. until then my prius is fine. Most of the market though is more price sensitive than you and me ;-) so hybrids will continue to sell for many years.

 

And perhaps less patient?

Bob Wilson

 

lol. patient enough. Really the new volt and i3-rex would provide me all electric driving in town. You got the i3, and really that is a good fit for me, and I could pick up one used, but not as great of a deal as you. I would rather not give money to gm (although own their stock now, thinking some activist can unlock value), but that is short term investing. i3 got to the right price point, after the model 3 was close enough. Model S is simply too expensive for me, and I often park in sketchy places. I would be very worried about a break in or vandalism for such a car. My previous lexus gs was vandalized.

Putting it all together all things being close I would rather buy a car made in america. I bought the imported prius, but there was nothing like it made in america, and the imported gs but again good competitors were foreign. The model 3 looks better, and I would rather have it, and think its worth waiting for. I expect initial quality problems if they happen will happen in california, which gets the car first, and will get fixed before I buy mine.

I do think bevs will be better in 7 years than they will be when the model 3 comes out, but I expect over the air software upgrades to help make the model 3 a better car while I own it. I know both my parents became much worse drivers when they aged, I love the fact that there are electronic nannies in the model 3 to protect me on long boring drives.

 

one thing where tesla has an advantage is they have good software engineers in house, where as most other car manfucturers due to history have good mechanical engineers but are struggling more with the reliance on software in modern cars, most systems are outsource many cars have ECU's from bosch / motronic etc , many ABS /ESP systems are third party, infotainment units are third party, rather than like the tesla where very little is third party so it all plays nicely and easy to upgrade

 

The Ioniq sounds very interesting to me. There is one HUGE advantage that the Prius has over the Ioniq, and that is Prius' top notch multi year track record. I now own a 2016 Prius Eco but in 2021 if the Ioniq has a track record comprable to the Eco, I will then consider them a worthy competitor.

 

there are 2 more:
lack of starting belt that needs to be periodically replaced 30,000-60,000 miles (? cost).
lack of troublesome double clutch tranny.

other than those details, Ioniq does look like a better car indeed.

 

I've gone over 100k miles on a serpentine belt in multiple cars.
The only one I personally replaced was the one on the Sable at 73k miles and 15 years.

Got to wait and see with the DCT. Hyundai had issues with it in one model(Tuscon?).

 

yep, time will tell, in the next 2-3 years we should have some good (or bad) economy and reliability figures

I am up to 16,500 miles since November no issues, in the UK starter/generator belt change is every 40,000 miles

its always worth a look even if only to use as leverage to get a discount on a new prius (the old, off to look an ioniq now unless you can do me a great deal )

 

I'm not as technical but before I knew about the prime, I wanted to drive it and compare cost and Hyundai is advertising 55mpg. To me as someone else said, its more lower cost competition for someone who wants to save on gas to the higher priced Gen 3 or 4. They are definitely trying to get Prius customers and they will. The one thing that really annoyed me with the Prime is the blind spot monitoring is on the advanced. It was on the Hyundai I test drove. Granted the structure of the care made a larger blind spot, but I think its more important for every day driving safety (and I have neck issues from an accident long time ago in a ford escort). The way I see it more hybrids on the road is better for the planet, less gas consumption so hopefully they get some people but if you really get into the details the Prius is still the leader. Competition is always good for the market