Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

I believe....Ford Energis uses a form of CVT, FCA Pacifica Hybrid, Volt, a lot of them use CVT

 

It is hard to 'capture' a Prius owner when there is no product with a Monroney sticker. Depending upon which press release, we'll see two of three Ioniq by the end of the month (it was the end of last week until Friday COB.)

Bob Wilson

 

Very true. Also, Hyundai has traditionally been very aggressive with discounts, etc...so I'm cautiously optimistic we will see that with the IONIQ as well. Another thing to consider is that Hyundai doesn't have the 'early adopters' lined up like Toyota does. I'd wager that they will aggressive discount to try to take a bite out of Toyota's market share.

 

where do you buy clothing where you can negotiate price?

 

there is a jab at prius in the article, so i'm sure they will love some customers to switch.

and toyota won't back down, could be a price war.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the Prius CVT. I'll certainly drive the Ioniq to see how their solution stacks up. Seems like someone in a Hyundai ran over someone's dog or something...

 

more than one person's, trust me.

 

There's also always the approach that Lexus used in the IS/RC 300h - a fake noise generator to make it SOUND like gearshifts were happening.

 

CVT transmission design are better for efficiency vs other transmission design....


Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

Yep, naming Ioniq a Prius competitor is outrageous.

 

I hate to say it but in MY opinion, the Ionia looks about 7 times better! Go to their website and look it it! It's actually sexy, and something you'd want to be seen in. I'm a massive Prius and HSD fan, have been for years and always will be. But damn it looks so nice! It will be a very good competition for the Prius, honestly the Prius needs competition

 

Yes - Hyundai has always been very smart in this way. The 'average buyer' doesn't really care about the technical aspects of the car...they buy on looks, interior space, and the MPG rating ( although not as much when gas is cheap ).

It pains me to say this, but I actually like the Prius Gen3 styling better than the new ones. Now that I'm seeing them in the wild, the styling of the new Prius, especially the rear end, just doesn't do it for me. It looks like a 'toy car' to me. The Prime is a bit better...but the raised trunk floor on the Prime just doesn't provide enough space.

Frankly, the Ioniq wins on pretty much all of my comparison criteria. However, as an enthusiast, I'm concerned about the technical aspects of the Ioniq. Especially the Dual Clutch Transmission. The warranty does allay some of those fears a bit...but I'm just not convinced that the Ioniq drivetrain will be as reliable as the Prius in a long-term scenario.

 

we won't know much about anything except looks, until we start getting real feedback from real owners. there are a few reports dribbling in from europe, but i won't say it will be good prius competition until it is.
been there, done that, way too many times.

 

Totally agree. My wife is a non car enthusiast who notices nothing about cars on the road except that she can always spot a gen 2 or 3 Prius (can't tell the difference between the two). That's why those models are called Iconic. She doesn't notice the gen 4 on the road at all. So, much as it pains me to say this, I've decided that Prius has "jumped the shark" as an iconic vehicle. Even many people who prefer the new styling might agree that it doesn't look like a Prius any more (and like it that way).

Anyway, back to the Ionic, the unproven reliability of the Ionic would also be a concern to me. I am looking forward to reviews from previous Prius owners on how it drives, how quiet it is, etc.

 

Warranty is one of the many considerations. You may have a much better warranty, but have to go back to the shop a lot. Or you may have a (Prius) warranty that's not as great but a much more likely probability that you never have to go back to the shop. Time will tell which principal the most buyers prefer.
.

 

And why does the Leaf have such incentives? Its nearest competitor available has over twice its range. Up to the 2017 model, it was a sub 100 mile range BEV. The 2017 will be its sixth model year. The cost cutting battery cooling system nearly made it the Civic hybrid of BEVs.

The 20 extra miles of range could be enough for somebody to pay more for an Ioniq. Then Hyundai is free to add their own incentives.

The hybrid is going to be the big seller though, and it undercuts the Prius with its current incentives.

That is actually what I was saying, if it wasn't clear.

Most of the eCVT hybrids use a power-split system that might have a cost disadvantage compared to the parallel system in the Ioniq.

One could be had on the Corolla.
Our auto journalists rag on CVTs because it doesn't give them the feel of a manual. That view has permeated into the public to the point that CVTs come with virtual gears now.

Depends on the final ratio.

 

You are stating the obvious...I think.

I know quite a few people that have had their Prius in the shop many times..out of warranty. However, we have two Hyundai's and have never had them into the shop...so it goes both ways. Are we just lucky?..maybe. Are the Toyota owners unlucky?...Maybe. Is the Toyota hybrid drivetrain more proven?..absolutely. I certainly don't want to be an early adopter of the Ioniq. However, don't think for a minute that Toyota owners never have problems.

 

I actually wonder how the cost does compare between a single-motor system with a conventional transmission, and a power-split system.

The actual gearbox is going to be a lot cheaper for a power split box - drastic parts count reduction, fewer machining operations, no clutches (other than the torque limiter), band brakes, or synchronizers, and no torque converter (for some CVTs and many planetary automatics).

The second motor, and needing an additional inverter, with higher duty cycle and much more power going through the inverters, however, will affect the cost there.

I suspect that the power split box is winning somewhere, though - it's worth noting that Toyota could've run a sandwich motor on their new 10-speed automatic for the LC 500h, and they instead used a power split box with a 4-speed automatic after it. (However, I also don't think that the LC 500h is the actual intended application of that box.)

And, speaking of fake ratios on CVTs, the LC 500h has that going on - it has "10 speeds". 10th is actual CVT operation in reduction box 4th, but 1st through 3rd are fake ratios in reduction box 1st, 4th through 6th are fake ratios in reduction box 2nd, and 7th through 9th are fake ratios in reduction box 3rd.

Also, the 2018 Camry Hybrid will have six fake ratios in sport mode.

 

I agree...I'd certainly like to see some technical papers on the engineering of the Ioniq ( and Kia Nero ) drivetrain.

Anyone have any idea if these exist anywhere...similar to the papers Toyota has published?