Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

Euro spec is off a dyno, actually driving the car down a road and noting instantaneous power is very useful because it removes gaming the 45mph aspects of the EPA test.

 

Those numbers follow very closely to what I was expecting, very good cold weather efficiency as far as EVs go anyway.

I could likely beat many of those metrics if I had an Ioniq since I leave the heat off down to 15 below now.

Rarely use climate controls.

 

this is the problem, how do you design a standard that covers every usage cycle? in such varied environmental conditions and varied usage by the drivers

if you design a test cycle for florida that is accurate for florida, how would it work in states near the Canadian borders where the temperatures are somewhat lower

but then you get to the real question which is a standard cycle like the EPA cycle actually for?

is it to measure pollutants or economy?

than the big one, are any of these standards (EPA, new European driving cycle etc) actually fit for purpose as we the consumers see them but that discussion would be for another thread?

 

reasonable requirements for reasonable people. all others suffer chronic headaches.

 

EPA Cycle is to give you an idea of Mpg on a 80 degree day using climate controls.

A 3D graph would list MPGs at different temperatures and speeds.

EPA is quite accurate when it comes to city but can be far off on highway because of the low speeds in the highway test.
EPA tests make no effort to show what economy the car gets at low temperatures, some cars economy is cut in half or more , others stay almost the same.

The "pollution" metric on a fuel economy placard is independent of FE (but related) and is on a best/worst scale.

Many manufacturers game for the test, meaning 2 cars with equal ratings can be very different on the highway real world because of different aero.

 

What they said.

 

I've found EPA rating to be fairly accurate in the city, assuming the built-in display overestimates by 2-3 mpg.

EPA is way low on the highway though over long distances. On roadtrips I regularly achieve 43 and up mpg on the display in my 07 Camry Hybrid. EPA hwy is only 34.

Same thing in my Lexus. EPA hwy is 29, but driving across state lines the display shows upwards of 35.

 

So the EPA cycle consists of five components:

FTP-75 run at 75 ºF (1975 city, cold start, based on the UDDS (which is based on a mid-1960s Los Angeles route, modified to reflect 1969 driving habits, acceleration limited to what dynamometers available in 1972 could handle), but with the addition of shutting the engine down at end of cycle, sit for 10 minutes, then do another run of the first 505 seconds of the cycle)
HWFET (1974 highway, hot start, based on rural driving)
SC03 run at 95 ºF (2003 city, hot start, similar to UDDS but shorter and with more aggressive acceleration, air conditioner use)
US06 run at 75 ºF (2006 city and highway, hot start, more aggressive (still not very aggressive) and higher speed driving cycle, up to 80 MPH)
Cold FTP run at 20 ºF (FTP-75, but in cold weather, and with the cabin heater running)

City mileage is based on a combination of FTP-75, SC03, cold FTP, and the city portions of US06.

Highway mileage is based on a combination of the startup fuel consumed in FTP-75 and cold FTP, SC03, and the highway portions of US06.

For details of how that's calculated: 40 CFR 600.114-12 - Vehicle-specific 5-cycle fuel economy and carbon-related exhaust emission calculations. | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

My guess is you're going slower than what the EPA estimates are based on. Also, higher altitude reduces fuel consumption - thinner air requires less power to get through and allows wider throttle openings for the same power (reducing engine pumping losses, assuming you're going fast enough that the engine can't shut down when the battery is full, which... you're going fast enough in both your Camry Hybrid and your Lexus, most likely). Higher temperatures can also reduce fuel consumption by further thinning the air, as long as grille shutters don't have to open and air conditioning loads remain low. And, while only cold FTP's startup fuel is counted in highway mileage, there's some multipliers that may skew estimated fuel mileage down overall to account for some of that. There's some people that can't hit the estimate, after all - it's meant to be an average. Some people won't get it.

Which, it'd be interesting to see a "cold HWFET" and a "cold US06", and only using the startup fuel from a cold run of FTP-75, to try to figure out a good cold highway number for, say, electric vehicles and their range in worst case.

 

US prices for the Ioniq announced today

2017 HYUNDAI IONIQ HYBRID AND ELECTRIC MODELS ARE PRICED TO ATTRACT ENTIRELY NEW ECO-FOCUSED BUYERS


EV's
Ioniq Electric $29,500
Ioniq Limited $32,500

Hybrids
Ioniq Blue $22,200
Ioniq SEL $23,950
Ioniq Limited $27,500

2017 HYUNDAI IONIQ HYBRID AND ELECTRIC MODELS SOON TO BE AVAILABLE TO U.S. CONSUMERS


if you want to see one they say "Hyundai Motor America has begun the first U.S. media drives of its Ioniq models in the beautiful Santa Barbara region of California"

 

Wow! that is cheap!!

So for those that own one already... What's the verdict? I wanna hear the good the bad and the ugly!

 

how is that cheap?

attracting an entirely new group of eco minded buyers? bold claim, and unlikely.

 

is there any other vehicle with autosteer or even TACC for $27,500? Not that I'm aware of.

 

no idea, i wasn't thinking of those features specifically.

 

torsion beam rear suspension on the ev's to increase cargo space. hmmm...

 

yep torsion beam to allow space for the bigger battery pack in the EV, also no room for even a space saver spare wheel so just a can of goo with the EV,

the plugin apparently has the independent suspension as the battery is not as big

 

Interesting trade off! I guess I'd take trade off for a larger trunk, etc...

 

The Leaf starts at over $30k, and has a shorter range.

The hybrid's starting MSRP undercuts the Prius by nearly $2500, and the top line Prius is over $30k. The Ioniq's double clutch transmission might get people turned off by a CVT to switch.

I think most people looking in that segment would.
The Ioniq PHEV keeps the independent rear, and its cargo space will be the same as the Electric's.

 

Everyone needs to keep in mind that the MSRP is more of a ceiling on price and means little else. The combination of Nissan and dealer incentives has knocked many thousands off the price of a Leaf for a long time. Only prices paid matter.

It's little different than MSRP on clothes that almost no one pays.

 

• MSRP - what you pay without negotiating room or GOOD and FAST omitting CHEAP.

Bob Wilson

 

trollbait,
thing is you seem to be looking at it as a Prius driver who is used to a CVT transmission and like it, how many cars other than Toyota use CVT?

to be honest I am not sure Hyundai are looking to convert current Prius owners, but more likely drivers of non Toyota cars who are thinking of a hybrid who drive a manual or std auto box car, as the DSG drives more like an std auto box than a CVT so a more familiar feel

so I think Hyundai are looking more to grab potential new Prius customers rather than try to convert existing / dedicated Prius drivers, over on the dark side in the other forum, most of the former prius drivers have said if is the looks of the new Prius which put them off the new one and so they looked at the Ioniq

but I also understand DSG boxes don't have a good reputation in the US from what I have seem due to judder when pulling away, but because the Ioniq pulls away on electric it don't suffer judder at all