Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

What a disaster has been this advocacy of the IONIQ in PriusChat.

The initial thread about rumors and spy-shots of the IONIQ were amusing and speculation about the sheet-metal art, fine enough. But no engineering data.

So time marches on and the Sonata hybrid like the NHW11, came to be. At least this car has some engineering data and shown a significant market presence. It is not the IONIQ but because it exists, better than press releases and public mutterings. But the true disaster was yet to come.

In the 2016 Prius discussion area, someone expressed a 'could be better' and IONIQ advocates pounced with 'how much better the IONIQ would be.' I'm sorry but that was the last straw for me and they have joined the trolls on my 'ignore user' list. There are mutterings that pass beyond conversations to 'sound and fury signifying nothing' and that has become the IONIQ.

I do not blame Hyundai or the Korean engineers who evolved the Sonata into the next generation, IONIQ. Rather I blame the IONIQ advocates who like the Volt, EV, 'Clean Diesel', and 'two mode' advocates before them foolishly think that electron-distorted screens displaying their non-engineering speculations were enough. Do they think they are Bob Lutz?

December has seen an uptick of 2015 Prius sales, clearance to make room for the 2016. Meanwhile, the 2016s are being unloaded at the ports and soon will be at the dealers. Those who held off for the Gen-4 and who need a fine ride will buy . . . and the IONIQ advocates are offering . . . .

I have been amused at how many times non-Prius advocates come here to advocate their rides and choices. Sometimes, former Prius owners have moved to their new 'hotness' yet come back. Reminds me of the old story of the chicken and pig who had a breakfast meeting of ham and eggs to discuss farmer Brown. The chicken was interested but the pig was committed.

I offer this to suggest to the IONIQ enthusiasts:

1. Prius pioneers - many have already moved on to other forums. Those who remain, we're the old and crafty pioneers who need more than 'sweet words' to move us off our rides. Go bother the other, pioneer forums for your new customers.
   
2. Bring us data - we don't need sheet metal art or bluster words. We need engineering metrics, facts and data. If you don't have them, be calms and wait until they are available. But don't prove you don't know anything by posting nonsense speculation. At least don't embarrass yourselves like VW.

Better to be quiet and thought the fool than to post and remove all doubt.

Bob Wilson

 

I don't know who you are directing the answer, it must be someone i've put in my 'unuseful and incompetent TROLLs ignore list' , but in any case i share your point of view: there's some few that don't want even mentions of anything that can come even close their toy of choice and are trying censorship even of official technical data, which is like to be on the edge of despair....

 

IMPOV, all the "competitor" analysis are great to be discussed here.
Ioniq may be even more than a "competitor", if a BEV spec comes to sale.
That should worry Toyota board, but they have been warned by the people that forgot to knock at Toyota doors asking for one.
As an assumed HSD fan, it's the only censorship I dully sign - short view of Toyota leadership.

 

Great words of wisdom.

Sadly, we've seen this nonsense far too long. "SHOW ME THE DATA" dates all the way back to 2004, when the gen-2 was new and got routinely attacked with claims that didn't have any merit. The real-world detail clearly revealed greenwashing efforts. Post were kept vague to avoid getting caught.

The rollout of Two-Mode and sales that followed were a disaster. Cause was obvious. Expectations were based on speculation, not actual facts. Real-World data brought hope to a sudden death.

Volt is even more of a mess. It was as if nothing had been learned from Two-Mode. In fact, when gen-1 expectations fell apart, focus was shifted over to gen-2 instead. Repeating the same mistakes, yet again!

With Hyundai's rollout of Ioniq, we're seeing the same careless hype emerge out of factless claims. They feed the speculation, becoming part of the problem.

 

it's clear that ionique advocates don't cotton to anyone who isn't fully on board, without really knowing anything about the car yet. there's a long history here of a small group of people who can't wait for toyota's crown to be knocked off. some people just have an uncanny ability to change fiction into fact. alchemists?

 

Well, I think you guys have over analyses this. GasperG is exactly right, This is the "Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News" section. But let me point out, scan this and other threads on PriusChat, and there is very little chatter since the Las Vegas showing. I bookmarked several other threads, and there has been little if any comments. This is the only thread that has generated any interest of late. Look, we are on page 13 already.

That said, Toyota and Prius are "big boys" and need to deal with stiffening competition. From all I have read, I'm a little blown away by the technical aspects of the new Prius. It seems they have taken a quantum leap in technology, ride, handling , safety, hopefully fit and finish and quietness. I personally, just do not like the pictures I have seen of the exterior, and to some degree the interior.

I have not deserted Toyota, I did trade my Prius for an Avalon hybrid, which I think was the next logical step. BTW, the TAH is a fantastic vehicle and does so many things well. I assume that future editions of the TAH will have the wonderful mechanical and technical upgrades introduced in the new Prius.

As far as the Ioniq, I suspect it will be a worthy challenger for the G2 and G3 Prius as well as the other challengers. I suspect it will be revealed that Toyota advanced their program well beyond the mimics.

That's my opinion.

 

Fair enough:

What set me off was: Thread repository for ALL non-PriusChat 2016 Prius reviews | Page 18 | PriusChat

Now I've reduced my 'Ignore User List' knowing that the true trolls will be back soon enough. After all, it does come close to yelling 'You kids get off my grass! . . . or light my bong.' Oblivious to how they abuse the patience of others, no doubt, 'They'll be back' and it is easy enough to put them back on my 'Ignore User List.'

When this thread or an associated one brings new IONIQ information, especially citing the sources, it does good. But when IONIQ advocacy shows up in a Prius subject thread as 'the solution' well I have a disposable e-mail account, a SPAM trap full of unsolicited suggestions. My SPAM solution is also technical . . . a 'white list.'

One thing I've enjoyed is the suggestion that the Sonata hybrid is a good proxy for the the IONIQ. Given the absence of engineering data, I look forward to a compare and contrast between the IONIQ and Sonata hybrid. @austingreen cleverly points out, it is the mirror image of the Camry hybrid, swapping the city and highway numbers. So there may be some interesting things to learn.

Bob Wilson

 

I admit to not keeping up with all the gen4 threads, but a post or two pointing out the Ioniq is coming to responses of some dissatisfaction over the gen4 isn't truly advocacy for the car. Telling someone that the Fusion or Sonata hybrid might be a better fit for them than the Camry doesn't mean that the post is boosting for Ford or Hyundai.

The Ioniq isn't here now, but will be before the next Prius plug in, and likely will be before the gen4 has been on American roads for a year. Those interested in the Prius, and that don't need a new car right now, are likely already waiting for those two milestones before making a purchase. Letting them know that the Ioniq might be another option to look at harms no one.

And really, if off topic advocacy was the issue, why not address it just in the offending thread, and not branch off topic here?

 

Practicing, "You kids get off my grass!" <GRINS>

Not to worry, I'm calmer today as I got some good news.

Bob Wilson

 

This would be a pretty boring site if only factual data was allowed to be discussed. IIRC there was a lot of speculation about the Gen4 Prius, but using your and Bob's rules nothing could have been discussed until actual facts were released by Toyota. That's not how internet forums work. FWIW, Priuschat is one of the best (if not the best) and most civil forums that I've used and the topics that get discussed and speculated on are why I keep reading it years after selling my Prius.

 

Newbies thrive on the sharing of driving experiences.

Then as time goes on, they contribute their own.

That's anything but boring. It's exciting & engaging.

 

One last thought. The Ioniq has been called "the Prius killer." I am not sure who originated the title, but it is generally accepted by the media. Just the title qualifies it for discussion IMHO.
I think it is wise to understand and know your "enemy" (competition, rival, opponent), especially if their stated intent is to "kill" you (or a product). I would suppose that every manufacturer studies the products of the competition. I know that every athletic coach studies films of their next opponent, and reviews scouting reports.

BTW, there is an Ioniq Forum, but it is not nearly as interesting, or populated by as many contributors as this forum, and, I have not seen the depth of understanding of engineering principals as are expressed on this thread. I have learned all manner of things about CVT, Atkinson cycles, direct injection, motor-generators and battery chemistry. I for one love the discussion, and hope the discussion will continue as more details are made known about all of the above.

 

On this, I will have to call "BS":

The title of this thread that you started is:

• Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor

The article @GasperG cited does not include "Prius competitor" in the article title or text. Sometimes we cite articles with anti-Prius bias as part of their title and I'm OK with this. We all sometimes stumble across something whose title could be better. But "Prius competitor" is your invention or 'cherry picked' from inside the article. Of course you could use the "Tools" and edit the title but that is just a technical detail.

Perhaps you don't remember "Meet the Volkswagens" and the "Portland-to-Portland" Prius vs Clean Diesel Jetta ads. Both were still on YouTube a week or so ago. They were "in your face Prius punk" ads that succeeded . . . in showing the aggressive advertising of "Das Auto." Hyundai does not need that attitude brought here . . . a choice. But that attitude did not end well for VW.

So take a few minutes and come back to the title of this thread. What the heck is "Prius Competitor" trying to accomplish . . . Prius pissing contest or information sharing?

Bob Wilson

ps. Check the diesel forum to understand we can forgive but we don't forget.

 

Bob, you are one of the more knowledgable contributors, of which I spoke. I always look for and read and re-read your post. Do not become distracted by these other issues. Keep your analysis and thoughts coming.

 

A technical trick, go to your first post and you'll see a "Thread Tools" link, upper right if I remember correctly. It displays a pull down that includes the ability to edit the title. Knowing how bad my speeling and gharmmar is, it has been a blessing.

Bob Wilson

 

It dates back to at least august 2014.
Hyundai&#039;s New Toyota Prius Fighter Spotted Testing » AutoGuide.com News
The media loves this kind of thing. Really the prius has not had any real competition in the segment since introduced, it just has trouble growing the niche outside of japan. The prius liftback still has 31% of the hybrid segment in the US this year, the next up prius c is only 9%. The hybrid segment is a thing, only because toyota made it a thing with the prius, otherwise it would just be an option I wouldn't pay much attention to the label, but yes hyundai looks to be out to produce a good hybrid/phev platform with the ioniq and that is hybrid news and worth discussing.

If you are a toyota fanboi, and like america importing cars, and the prius as it is, then maybe you might take that attitude.

If you like hybrid and electrification technology (phev/bev) then the ioniq is a good thing. You want the segment to improve and grow. Competiton as weak as it was from the honda insight, probably made toyota put more effort into the prius c/aqua which is the second best selling hybrid in the US, and best seller in Japan and probably the world. No competition normally means weak offerings. The prius though does try to compete with other gasoline, but has been losing market share. I hope the new model ends the slide. If the ioniq is a good car, it will only push toyota into making the gen V better

I don't think this will really challenge the prius for market share, but it could move up to number 2 in the US, and grow the market.

 

The problem with running around and trying to start a fight is sometimes, some folks, like me and my Southern' friends . . . we don't get the memo. I'm thinking of the "Top Gear" tour of the South where they 'decorated their cars' only to discover folks in Alabama don't joke about some thnigs. They did the same nonsense in Argentina and got a chance to restart hostilities (couldn't happen to a better group of clowns.)

Yes, I know I'm Southern' and still remember my shock the first time I heard two boys, one from Jersey and the other New York, at Oklahoma State discussing something. My first thought, 'Hide the knives and baseball bats because somebody is going to get stuck.' Later, I came to realize that is how they talk. In parts of Alabama, that is is how you get shot.

So yes, the IONIQ may be a sweet ride and provide another competitive point in addition to Ford for the Prius family. I am OK with that. Just let's not go to the 'House of Prius' and act like some of the crude and rude advocates in the past who came with a chip on their shoulder.

Bob Wilson

 

I just didn't see any rude and crude behavior here.