Hymotion/Other Phev Mods - Who's taken the plunge?

so who has done the conversion??? any reports and/or updates for interested PCmembers?

-TIA :up:

 

a123system/hymotion blogged their dealers today. Only an hour away for me. After reading how far some of you will travel for the conversion I feel very lucky. Now I just need the car
Chris

 

Wow, did anyone else notice that a123/Hymotion is using Toyota dealerships for the installation. Three of the six are Toyota dealers

 

Maybe this is a stupid question, but I'm a little bit confused. I went to the website, but couldn't really find it. Say you do the A123 systems phev conversion kit to your Prius.

How far can you drive?
Can it still run in hybrid mode, assisted with gas?

 

The information can be found at Hymotion :: Enabling the new generation of hybrid owners to maximize their fuel efficiency I'm amazed that they have three Toyota dealerships as CHIP installers.

 

The info is a bit vague but I answered my own question. "Through the increased use of electric drive, the Hymotion Plug-in Conversion Module enables the Prius to achieve in excess of up to 100 mpg for 30-40 miles* over a range of up to 40 miles, dependent upon driving conditions. Once the L5 module is depleted, the vehicle reverts to the normal drive cycle of a stock Toyota Prius."

 

ibcs, the Toyota dealers make sense to me. Trained High Voltage Techs with knowledge of the prius. Probably would not be a problem to get Toyota warantee without many hassles.
McDonald, for me the 30-40 miles fits in my commuter distance. And I also drive a combination hwy/city. I expect 100+ daily(hopefully hitting 150 as well). The hour drive back from the install will be a good test of an hour of battery charge at hwy speeds, as long as I get it with a full charge Plus even in normal Prius mode the mileage drops to the 45-50 MPG range.
Chris

 

I agree Toyota dealerships are great, I'm not sure why I was surprised.

Just spent last evening adding an electrical outlet to the garage. Only had one at the front and I normally do not back the car in every day. $40 worth of parts, mainly copper wiring, but I know have electric at the front and back. Now waiting for October.

 

Well, I hadn't until yesterday. So on 6/8/08 I was #639.

I had been debating with myself since it didn't have "on the fly" recharging capabilities, but decided there would be only a half dozen time a year I'd be going much farther than 30 miles between charges anyway.

Now I just have to find out how long it will before they can do the installation.
That may give us an indication at how rapidly they can/are producing the kits.

Dave M.

 

Let me know when you hear about your installation date. I'm schedule for the 2nd week of October. At $5 per gallon, I actually might break even on this deal. I don't care if I break even as long as I personally buy less oil.

 

Even at $5/gallon it could take quite awhile.

But I agree with you. "It's the principle of the thing."

In part I got my Prius because of my irritation at the tax break for Hummers. I'm approaching 75k miles. At 45 mpg vs 25 mpg that's a saving of over 1333 gal. If the average price per gallon over that period had been $3/gal it would be a saving of $4000. Obviously, even at $2/gal I'm approaching the "payoff" point for the Prius itself vs another new car of otherwise comparable quality.

At #639 Erin has emailed me that shipment to the installer would be in November 2008.

Dave M.

 

Congrats guys! I'm seriously jealous. Sadly my funds are much weaker than my principals at the moment

Please keep us posted!

Rob

 

I wish everybody on the list a very speedy wait.

I'm trying my best to find detailed information on how the Hymotion PHEV achieves ~100mpg, but am not having much luck. So, I have some questions for those of you who have done the conversion or know about it:

(1) Are there no Hymotion changes to Toyota's EV mode below 34mph? I assume there are no changes.

(2) Does Hymotion provide an EV button for those who do not have one? I assume yes.

(3) In a standard Prius, it is easy to cancel EV mode below 34mph by sharply depressing the accelerator. Is this still the case in a Hymotion PHEV? I assume yes.

(4) When accelerating in EV mode above 34mph, EV mode is cancelled, the electric motor stops turning the wheels, and the ICE starts turning the wheels. In a Hymotion PHEV, does the electric motor continue to power the wheels after EV mode is cancelled and the ICE lights, leaving both the electric motor & ICE turning the wheels? I assume yes.

(5) If both the electric motor & ICE turn the wheels above 34mph, then either (a) there is more power, or (b) less ICE load to increase gas mileage. Is it the latter? I assume yes. I'm guessing that the electric motor at highway speeds allows for low load, low RPM ICE usage, and approximately 100mpg at 60mph?

(6) What happens if you have a full charge, no gas in the tank, and accelerate above 34mph? Does the ICE light briefly before shutting down due to no fuel, allowing for all electric on the highway? Granted, I understand this is not a wise thing to do. But I find myself curious what happens anyway.

(7) What is the grid charge range at speeds below 34mph? What is the grid charge range at highway speeds?

(8) How is the driver notified when the grid charge is depleted and the Prius returns to "regular hybrid mode"?

If these questions have been answered before, my apologies. Direct me to the right thread. I can't seem to find the answers anywhere though.

 

Great questions. I will try to answer them as accurately as possible. I'm on the list, so I don't have any actual experience.

1) I talked to Hymotion they do not make any changes to the 34 MPG limit. But having extra charge does allow you to use EV only at speeds up to 42 MPH.


2) Hymotion does not provide an EV button. The engine must start on a Hymotion conversion to provide lubricate for the planetary gear. The planetary gear is lubricate by the engine. They do not recommend extended EV use when talking to them about the EV button.

3) Hymotion does not change the way the Prius drives. They provide extra battery that allows the car to use less ICE providing more mileage.

4) Currently the Prius uses the ICE and electric motor at all speeds. The amount varies depending on speed and level of battery charge. By having a full battery the Prius tries to use the electric motor to get the charge within the normal limits. So yes, the electric motor and ICE are powering the wheels.

5) Exactly correct. The extra battery allows the ICE to run at a lower load since more energy is being supplied by the electric motor.

6) I'm not sure on this one. I know they have used a gas cut-off system to be able to get EV up to 52 MPH. I'm not interested in the mod, since to get the ICE started again you must stop the vehicle. But to answer you question, I don't know.

7) If I understand your question, your asking if the car will charge the Hymotion battery. The Hymotion battery is a battery extender only. The Prius will not charge it in any way. Once it is depleted you are done until you can charge it again. Interestingly enough, I have a 10 Amp inverter in my Prius. I'm going to try charging it at highway speeds with the Hymotion off to see if I can gain anything. It might not work, but the engineer in me wants to play.

8) I think they have some interface to the main screen. I'm not sure on that, but you actually don't need to know when it is discharged. You will know by the MPG chart on the Prius display. It will drop considerably once the charge is depleted.

I hope I answered all your questions. If anyone notices anything I said is mis-stated please feel free to add to the discussion.

---Kent

 

I also thought that there is some change to the screen in regards to Hymotion's pack SOC and a 3 digit (before the decimal point) MPG readout.

On Hymotion's website (IMHO) there is a great graph of the pack's performance by ANL high-power lithium ion batteries
It shows that the pack holds the SOC for >4000 seconds and the second cycle the MPG was just 200MPG.
Chris

 

I remembered something about the normal screen being able to show that status of the pack, but I could not find it again. I hope it does. Another feature is that they have an interlock to not allow the car to be driven while it is plugged in. So hopefully, my wife or I don't pull the extension cord down the road.

 

There is some more technical discussion at http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-t...hymotion-conversion-technical-discussion.html

 

fibb222,
Thanks for the link. I did not realize there was a technical thread.
Chris

 

I believe the Hymotion (and most other) conversion really just takes advantage of the modes already present in the Toyota controller. You can simulate this for a short time by getting your Prius up to 8 green bars on the MFD. Force charging, and then braking down hill would probably be the easiest way to get there. What you find is that the car gets really good mileage under this condition. Its much more likely to voluntarily drop into stealth mode without pedal modulation, it will even accelerate moderately under stealth mode beyond 34mph. At high speeds you will be getting much better mileage and may still see it dropping into stealth depending on terrain. Of course on a standard Prius this mode of operation is very short lived, but it gives a tantalizing glimpse of how cool a PHEV conversion would be.

I believe the quoted 30-40 miles is the highway hybrid mode range. The low speed electric mode range would be more like 1/2 that. This seems consistent with their published 5kWh pack size.

I thought I remembered Hymotion using a small bar graph and several colored LEDs to indicate PHEV pack SOC and mode. This was all very discretely mounted into one of the dash switch blanks. I could be wrong though, I get them all confused.

Seems unlikely At 10A/12V you are charging at 120W. Even without efficiency penalties it would take 42 hours of driving to recharge the 5kWh pack. With efficiency penalties, you will burn more gas charging the battery than you can get back out. Efficiency penalties will probably be significant, as you are converting gasoline -> ICE/MG2 -> 201V DC -> dc:dc converter -> 12V DC -> AC inverter -> 120V AC -> charger rectifier/filter -> internal DC rail -> charger switching controller -> HF AC -> charger filter -> L5 pack HV DC. Thats a lot of conversions You might get some benefit coming down a really, really big hill, but other than that... Plus I would assume the Hymotion pack has a charge interlock, which won't let you operate the vehicle while the charger is plugged in. Defeating that could be dangerous and have unintended consequences.

Rob