Hybrids won't save drivers money, Consumer Reports (April 2006)

You have never seen injectors or starters fail? Try to navigate some europan forums.

Your turbo diesel about to buy, as smart choose, doesn't have a turbo.
So glad for you. A lot of savings upfront!

For others there is a real world to live in.

 

Bob Wilson

 

Eu concordo, e eu acho que o seu Inglês é muito melhor do que o meu Português!

(or....I hope that's what I said. I used Google translator, so I might just have ordered a pizza!.....)

 

Hmmmmm......
There's something familiar about your signature......

 

Not perfect sentences or word spelling, nor english, but I wanted very much to get my message understood.
(ETC(SS), your GoogleTranslator works pretty well)

I'm still under perfecting, habits and so on, after all I bought a ticking bomb car back in 2010, with a 2500usd battery waiting to be swapped. I will blatantly reject any possible repair of a bad cell, cause it would only cost 50usd, meh.

 

The problem with your analysis is that you are saying most of the repairs are unlikely so you won't save anything. From an anecdotal view point you are probably correct. However, people that collect large number of repair records can say that a one car model, for example has a 5% chance of some repair in 100,000 miles and another has a 3% chance. Both unlikely, but still, on average the lower number wins. I've had 10 cars in my life, the first 5 were conventional ICE cars, then 4 Prius models and a Leaf. Besides the scheduled maintenance and tires the sum total for the Prius's and Leaf is less than the what each of the 5 ICE cars cost individually.

Mike

 

I believe that repairs on a Prius are substantially less than on other cars. That's based on plenty of anecdotes plus CR (or was it....??) rated them as having one of the lowest total cost of ownership

In addition, the fundamentals are good, aren't they? First off, the engine isn't always on. Maybe it runs 80%of the time? Who knows. Whatever it is, my engine and brakes, etc are all going to last longer as a result.

Next up, design. There's just less stuff to go wrong on a prius. Fewer belts etc, stuff like that.

OTOH, be careful with your logic. The P value of a 5% chance of a $100 repair is only $5. Not that much. Additionally, differences between cars make that even less. Ie..if a Prius has a 3% chance of a $100 repair, and another car has a 5% chance, the difference in P values is only $2. Literally, if you knew nothing at all about two cars in this situation, one would be worth $2 more than the other (adjusted upwards for risk tolerance).

 

Yeah wow I'd say Consumer Reports has totally changed since 2006 to be more political on cars and pro-green cars with little criticism, unless they have to. Back in 2006, every month's issues said hybrids did not make financial good sense, unless gaso costs go up, which they of course did.

 

It's amazing how politics change the data, huh?

I remember when data used to be more neutral.

Even with today's cheaper gas prices, hybrids can make sense.....especially if you're one of those smart people who do not buy new cars every 4-5 years. Trickle down technology means that the buy-in cost for hybrids has decreased and the ten-year track record for Toyota's reliability has been a good one.
If you can keep the car out of the dealership's service department and you do all of the prescribed maintenance, or have it done competently and without unnecessary up-selling for unneeded services, then Priuses ARE just about the cheapest cars to use for 225,000 miles or so.

Even $2 a gallon gas is too expensive to waste just getting back and forth to work.

 

As an owner of two Prius cars..
My 2008 lasted 9 years ..and when gas was high I saved a boat load..when gas was cheap I still saved.. the only repair in 9 years 1 wiper motor under warranty. So I say they have no clue, over 4 years the cost of a hybrid vs non yes that's the break even point so if you buy and trade every 3 to 4 ..I agree...but if you keep the car you Save.

SAMSUNG-SM-G891A ?

 

Very true and quantitative approach.
In terms of chances of something going wrong in a Prius, it is well known that the probability is very below industry average (Truedelta boards as example).
Also in terms of reliability, HSD holds many sensors that combined with the upmost simplicity...keeping away the domino effect of a failure.

 

In addition to the obvious point that used cars have a considerably lower hybrid penalty than new cars, even the extra cost of new hybrids can be negated if the car is owned long enough. Buying a brand new hybrid Camry costs 3700 more than a gas-only Camry, and at today's prices, the fuel savings start to pull ahead of the cost difference in 9 years. Considering the average vehicle on the road is 11.5 years old right now, 9 years seems a reasonable amount of time to own a car.

When considering repair costs, True Delta shows repair cost charts for all the vehicles in their database. If you compare the Prius with the Camry or Corolla, the Prius does have a higher percentage of repairs that cost $2500+ (4% vs 2% for the Camry & Corolla), but it has a similar percent of repairs that cost $1000+ (12% for Prius & Corolla, 13% for Camry), and is between the Camry & Corolla in percentage of repairs under $500 (64% Camry, 67% Prius, 70% Corolla). Prius overall average reliability is also between Corolla & Camry (40.6% of average repairs for Corolla, 48.6% for Prius, 51.5% for Camry), so there isn't any significant hybrid penalty in repair costs or rates in most cases. The only hybrid penalty I can find for repairs is for the 2% of total repairs that cost over $2500 for a Prius instead of between $1000-2500 for a Camry or Corolla.

So from my figures, the initial hybrid penalty can be easily overcome by simply owning the car long enough or buying used. And the subsequent hybrid penalty occurs for only the few people who encounter a catastrophic repair cost with the Prius instead of an expensive repair cost with the Camry or Corolla. Overall, that means to me that the hybrid penalty does exist, but its effects are small and can be easily overcome by continued ownership.

 

...less brake wear alone makes me tempted to stay with a hybrid

 

In June this year, I will have owned and driven a 2008 Prius Tspirit for 4 years. Up till when I purchased my used Prius in 2013, I had only owned ICE powered vehicles. Yes, I'd had my fair share of vehicle engine repairs back then, including clutches, starter motors, head gaskets blowing, petrol pump replacements even the odd radiator. That was all in the past.

Choosing a vehicle to replace my last car - a Mazda MX-3 - meant I had a list of things I wanted to avoid. These included, but were not limited to;

Double Clutch failures / replacements.

Unreliable CVT Gearboxes with a high failure rate!

Diesel Particulate Filters.

Manual Gearboxes.

Arthritic Automatic Gearboxes on their last legs.

Turbos.

Unreliable complicated brake components.

Unreliable engines that are know to require injector replacements every few years.

Vehicles that require hyper expensive stealership maintenance and support.

I originally wanted an automatic Diesel engined vehicle, but my investigation via forum owners websites of some of my prospective choices soon revealed VERY unhappy owners literally WEEPING about their vehicle choices various costly problems.

CVT Gearboxes with high failure rates on a so called prestige manufacturer that were costing £2,500 to replace - only for them to fail again under 5 years!

Double clutches on diesels that cost an arm and a leg to repair, when they went wrong, put me off manuals for life.

Proven reliability was VERY important to me.

I only settled on going for a Prius after exhaustively reading true ownership narratives on forums like Prius Chat.

I have not been disappointed.

My Prius is the first vehicle I ever purchased, that I had maintained and serviced at an official automobile dealer. This is has been surprisingly affordable with Toyota.

It has EASILY been the most ultra reliable vehicle I have ever had the pleasure of driving.

36,000 miles after purchase, and nothing major has popped its clogs! I have never been stranded by the roadside as with the other ICE vehicles I have owned.

The Prius Hybrid technology clearly has MAJOR advantages over ICE vehicles of similar power output and size.

IF the traction battery goes one day, so be it. I'll replace it and carry on. This is a vehicle good for about 180,000 (officially) in the U.K. It's just got halfway to that mark, while operating flawlessly.

These vehicles continue to court controversy because they dare to be different. They dare to run much more economical. They dare to be ultra reliable. They dare to....be!

Let's be perfectly clear; I have saved an awful lot of money by driving a Prius over the last 3.5 years. And I do mean A LOT.

Petrol is NOT cheap in the U.K......Indeed, we get screwed over relentlessly by our governments via petrol taxes - and I bought a Prius to reduce that fuel bill substantially - and YES, I have.

This vehicle is my commuter transport. My tube train. It gets me everywhere and allows me to avoid ridiculously high public transport bills.

In the U.K. in particular, the Prius (especially a used one), is a very clever way of achieving vehicular independence on a budget.

I AM saving a lot of money with my Hybrid, and then some. Consumer Reports are talking complete nonsense by insinuating otherwise.


iPhone ?

 

There is no transportation system more effective than an automobile. And no better car exists than the Prius for economy, versatility and reliability. It's not the best choice for everyone, but it is the best for the average person.

 

Lets not forget how many years old the OP's thread is, for one thing. I'd suppose CR does realize now, how stupid their original article was .... claiming hybrids won't save drivers money. At its core - the notion of hybrids not saving money implies what .... that non-hybrids DO save you tons of money ? With that kind of logic? Weee! let's all go buy land barge/suburbans - because hybrids won't save you any money. That's the kind of logic Art Spinella tried to spin, & was quickly shot down - when he claimed the Hummer is more economical than a prius - cradle to grave. Now - over a decade later, Spinella AND the Hummer are in the grave - even as hybrid AND plugin numbers continue to flourish.
.

 

the best kept secret right now are gen 4 pkg 2 or prime plus for 20 grande. if that doesn't save a new car buyer money over the life of the car, nothing will.

 

It was accounting ignorance that doomed those analysis. They did not realize there is a difference between:

• capital money - paid once, depreciates, and has a salvage value
• operational money - paid every time the car moves or is licensed

Those false analysis assumed no barrier between the two when in fact there is a significant difference. If you don't have enough capital money, a repo man takes the car and the bank takes the title. If you don't have enough operational money, you eat at McDonalds on vacation and camp out . . . but you have your ride.

In 1984 I was asked to prepare a capital budget for personal computers. I went with a mix of compatable PCs, mostly portables, and Macintosh tailored for our word processing department and engineering. But when it reached Division HQ, one of the managers became unglued. He insisted all of them be IBM branded, PCs because "a PC can do anything a Macintosh can do" and totally rejected affordable PCs. He 'won' by doubling the capital cost with a bunch of overweight, under performing IBM 'boat anchors.' The operational cost was the staff of Microsoft DOS and eventually Windows 'experts' who maintained the PCs while the Macs needed about 1/4th to 1/5th the labor hours to keep running. Even today, the Windows 'experts' have a huge staff to <old man wanders off muttering to himself.>

Bob Wilson

 

I hear and feel your pain, Bob.

I'm an ICT Support Engineer raised on, and presently supporting mostly nine year old PCs for a living . However, now I have a MacBook Pro and prior to that, an iMac 2006 that still works flawlessly. Got a late 2015 MacBook Pro for my daughter too, who just started Uni, shortly after which her PC laptop went belly up without warning.

The Macs are my computers of choice right now, because they require virtually no complicated maintenance compared to the PCs. They're also quite reliable. And the user experience is......positively painless.

Reminds me of a certain futuristic vehicle....


iPhone ?

 

If I may be blunt: You don't keep your Priuses long enough to develop age-related breakdowns. You trade them off to some other person, and they get stuck with the age-related failures (like dried-up or leaky batteries).

I've spent far more money on my Civic and Insight Hybrids than a conventional car. Mainly because of the $2500 battery replacement cost in each one. None of my nonhybrid Dodges or Fords hit me that hard.

It basically turned me anti-hybrid (or perhaps I should say: anti-battery). So far my Prius has not needed a battery, but it isn't that old either. I expect after 10 years it too will have an expensive replacement cost.