Hybrids won't save drivers money, Consumer Reports (April 2006)

I see CR as a typical conservative rant rag, have they ever tested hand guns? Oh s**t they couldn't do That! they'd loose their subscriber base. I used to subscribe to it back in the 70's but gave up as I saw that they went from ditch to ditch on lots of stuff. I bought the one with Hybrids in it but very seldom do I support them by purchasing their rag.

 

I was bored the other day and was surfing the net, looking at used prius's . I started windering how many hybrid purchases where made due to the threat of rising fuel costs? and one the fuel costs began to lower they decided to sell their Hybrid due to false sence of security that they will continue to fall back to were it all started.

OFT, Have you ever noticed how many people walk around with thier head in the clouds?

 

yeah right they won't save us money...

I drove mine as a work vehicle last year... I was getting paid mileage + my salary. I guess I'm lucky cause I racked up a LOT in mileage. Worked payed for everymile I put on my vehicle. Save me money cause while I was getting a consistent 50+ mpg the guys were getting 23 high end... (on a stick shift truck) and were all getting the same "mileage" pay.


I find it funny that they say that you're not going to save anything. They can't look at every possible situation for the car...

but I have to admit the money I did save... well... lol I spent on accessories. So maybe I didn't save anything at all

 

You don't save money when you buy something. You save money when you put it in the bank (or in your mattress) instead of spending it. And if you want economical transportation you don't buy a new car; you buy a used one.

CU is an excellent source of product information, which helps consumers make educated choices about their purchases. Note CU's overall assessment of hybrids:

But cost comparison between different kinds of products are highly subjective. Is an apple a better buy than an orange? Maybe the orange is cheaper; but maybe I want an apple today. The Prius is unique. There's nothing to compare it to. I'd rather drive my Prius than a Jaguar. A Jaguar XK series runs from about $75,000 to about $82,000. So I "saved" $56,000 right off the lot when I bought my Prius! And that's even before you factor in repair costs and gas consumption.

The Prius might even save the life of a loved one: let's say your teenage son gets jilted by his girlfriend and decides to end it all by carbon monoxide poisoning: He closes the garage, starts the car, and sits down to die. But if the car is a Prius, it runs for a minute or two and then the engine shuts off. Value of a saved life: Priceless.

 

ooooh kay :lol:

 

That's to break even assuming $2.25 gas and similar depreciation to the comparison vehicle. I think CR is intentionally misquoting or misrepresenting data. I wrote to the contact at Vincentric.com, I'll let you know what the response is. Here is the letter I'm sending CR in tomorrow's mail:


Consumer Reports, attn Editor/Quality Control
101 Truman Ave.
Yonkers, NY 10703-1057


I was surprised and disappointed when reading the extremely misleading issue that arrived today. Then I realized you quietly dropped the “Your Letters†section, but I still need to write and let you know your April 2006 article, "The dollars & sense of hybrids" does not stand up to even preliminary scrutiny. I have a minor quibble about the fuel savings - you give a scary-sounding scenario of factoring in a rise to $3 and $4/gallon gasoline, but you fail to mention anywhere what the price you use for each year. Unless someone does the numbers, they won't know that for the first 3 years of the 5-year ownership, you are assuming $2/gallon. I don't know where you buy gasoline for $2/gallon, but it's not where I live. You have fallen to using tricks against the consumer that you rail against in your reports.

But a much larger error exists in the "Extra Depreciation Cost". You supposedly use data from Vincentric that show a higher than normal depreciation cost for hybrids compared to standard gas-only vehicles. However, in this very same issue, you give the best rating for depreciation to the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight (the other hybrids aren't listed separately). Looking at used car prices at CarMax.com, I can’t find a post-2003 Prius that sells for less than its MSRP – even after 50,000 miles! The Kelly Blue Book trade-in price for a used 2004 Prius in good condition is barely $1000 less than the original MSRP! This is unheard of in the automotive industry. As all this didn't make sense, I decided to check your sources and went to Vincentric.com. There I was surprised to read two articles, dating May 2005 and Jan 2006, that both rate hybrids at the top for best total cost of ownership. The most recent article (Jan 2006) unequivocally states that hybrids are helped by a higher residual rate, and lists the Prius as the best total value for a mid-size car under $23000, the Honda Civic Hybrid as the best value for a compact car over $17000, the Ford Escape Hybrid for best value of a compact SUV over $22,500, and even the Toyota Highlander Hybrid for best value of a mid-size SUV over $30,000.

In short, I don't know how you manipulated the data, whether it was intentionally misleading, an outright lie or an honest mistake, but this was a deeply irresponsible article. I think your readers deserve an apology and an explanation.


nerfer

 

So did you sign the letter 'nerfer'? :lol:

Good points. I hope that they send you a response.

 

My Prius was in the body shop last week (someone rear-ended me) and I drove an SUV rental. The beast had plenty of pickup due to it's 9.4M cylinders (those numbers are appox.) but it cost me $35 extra for only five days of commuting. And that's just back and forth to work! Yes, the Prius saves me money.

 

I've seen news strories that claim hybrids are "disposable" cars because once the warranty is over and the battery dies down the road no one will want to buy a used one. I think the opposite is true. With the Prius being electric first it is primed to take advantage of new rapidly advancing battery technologies ( I dont think this is true with IMA Hondas). The problem a few years down the road will be not wanting to part with my upgradable Prius for a new whatever comes technology car thats out there.

 

on the resale thing...

i predict a rather LARGE aftermarket business of retrofitting existing used hybrids with advanced battery packs for a price and then reselling them for a premium.

it will take a few years. battery tech isnt really to the favorable price point yet, but its coming. also...as most of you well know, there isnt a large enough used Prius market yet especially with people hitting 20,000 miles with only a small decrease in their new car zeal. i may be completely off-base, but i doubt it.

 

It is amazing how offended some of you get when CR does not give your beloved Prius a great review? I think the Prius is a landmark vehicle but you don't see your anger at CR as hypocritical? And by the way we are getting closer to having a toyota dealership. Strictly as a means to an end.

 

gee malorn...

your daughter is butt ugly!!

how does that make you feel? sucks dont it. after all, who am i to comment on your daughter's attractiveness?

but its only an opinion. everyone has one. as for my Prius, my opinion is based on EXTENSIVE personal experience that completed contradicts the statement in the article. it also contradicts much of what i know about the Prius and its salability.

CR positions itself as an unbiased synopsis of a realistic end user's experience. they bend over backwards to also present the worst case scenario and that is what, i feel, is where the article fails misearbly.

they did not qualify the article enough. its obvious to me that they are factoring in the premiums added by a handful of dealers across the country. in a sense, i dont blame them, get away from the coasts and it can be very difficult to find a Prius at MSRP. but its not really all that difficult if one is willing to do a little leg work.

another benefit of this site is the hundreds and maybe even thousands of people that came here complaining about markups and who read about purchase success orders and were inspired to do the same. i cant even begin to think of how many additional sales were generated because of the information on this site. Toyota should be the one sponsoring this site.

 

I have been tracking the prices of 2001-2003 Prius on ebay. Over the past 2 years, these prices have fluctuated around an "odometer depreciation" model. The highs and lows were quite in step with US fuel prices during that period. The largest fuel price spike (of about a dollar) was after Hurricane Katrina, of course. This temporarily increased the classic Prius resale value by about $2000.

I posted more details about this on the Yahoo groups, but will give details here if needed.

 

doesn't hte article about the Prius at least make you wonder about how objective and embedded in fact some of their other recommendations and findings are. Or maybe this is the first time they have published an untruth?

I have always felt many of their recommendations based on reader surveys are flawed. I will tell you that the readers of CR are NOT a great mix of american drivers as a whole. What would the findings be if you sampled the readers of PC about quality? I suspect the findings would very much mirror the findings in CR. What if you sampled the subscribers of the NRA's mag about vehicle qualtiy do you think the findings would be the same as CR? I know that is an extreme example, but will hopefully illustrate my point.

 

gee malorn... i dont know why i thought you would understand... sorry

 

As i said before i think the Prius has broken new ground in the automotive world and for some reason CR decided it was time to knock it off its high horse. If anyone thinks that tester or writers or anyone can review a product or service without a bias or without an agenda, I think you are sadly mistaking. Agian I think by and large the PRius is a fantastic car and I don't think you can ever quote me as saying anything different.

Just honestly think about this for a moment, do you think the writer of the article in CR started with a completely open mind about the Prius or did he start with an end and find whatever means necessary to reach the desired end? think about it.

 

sorry, my comment was directed at your "untruth" statement. there is no untrue opinions or real statements when presenting projections.

most projections are based on collecting data, analysing the bell curve of data and drawing conclusions. for CR to present data from the lower extreme end of the bell curve is certainly within their right. that fact, however should have been made abundantly clear.

what they presented is undoubtedly true for a small portion of Prius owners as it would be for any other product. the fevor of the opinions stated here, imho, actually represents a much more truer picture of what the average Prius owner can expect.

you also have to keep in mind the name of the forum here before you question our loyalties...something you seem to have extreme learning curve about

 

That's a strong reason why I didn't purchase the HCH and broke a 25+ year relationship with Honda to buy a Prius. We're already seeing battery options such as offered by hymotion and I can't wait to see what's going to be available when my warranty runs out, or maybe even before!

 

You can find "facts' to support almost any supposition. I think the author chose to write a negative article about the Prius for whatever reason.

 

I didn't really buy the Prius to save money overall, although my gas costs are down dramatically from the previous car, a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I looked at higher mileage conventional cars, and almost purchased a Volkswagen diesel. It just didn't have the 'cool' factor the Prius does, and I'm a self-confessed techie geek.

Part of the purchase decision (a major part) was liberal guilt. I felt a twinge every time a Sierra Club newsletter came, or I went to an environmental event in a gas guzzling SUV. Driving the Prius feels good, especially when you are following someone in a Hummer that you just know has to mortgage their house just to buy gas!

I used to cringe when I had to leave home in Tahoe and head to the bay area for a meeting. Now, I do it on a single Prius-sized tank of gas easily!

Still own the Jeep, by the way. It has been demoted to the family 'snow' car, and still gets a lot of use when the roads are bad.

Dan