Hybrids won't save drivers money, Consumer Reports (April 2006)

Ditto. I've been keeping my cars for increasingly longer periods of time.
1983 VW Rabbit - five years
1988 Honda Civic - six years
1994 Honda Civic - 12 years...it's for sale right NOW!

2006 Prius - I'm hoping for at least ten years...maybe 15!

So I have no doubt that over that period of time, my Prius will definitely save me money...not to mention that it is the most comfortable, decked-out, fun, and biggest car I've owned!

 

They won't save money compared to what? The 2000 GMC Sierra POS I got rid of to get my Prius?

I'll be the first to admit I have an unfair advantage compared to most PriusChat members: I'm given a generous mileage allowance for work-related travel. For that reason, I was looking at a VW Jetta TDI, Honda Insight, and finally the Prius. Based on the work-related travel I do in my car, I should have it fully "paid off" by 2008.

My 2000 GMC Sierra I broke even.

I actually look at the whole hybrid car issue as more of a strategic/tactical necessity, especially for the United States. Face it, around 63% of all energy needs are met with foreign sources.

As a dual citizen who fairly recently moved to Canada, it's quite clear to me that a constant war footing isn't the answer to "reliable" energy sources. The balance of payments problem (Trade deficit that Malorn is always whining about) is a direct consequence of foreign governments "kindly" covering the deficit spending of the United States. I'm a right-winger but I'm NOT a neocon nutjob, think of me more as a Libertarian.

The neocon nutjobs would have us believe that we can somehow spend outselves out of the trade deficit, and that if we all drive Patriotic gas guzzling trucks and SUV's, that it will *improve* our security.

 

Lets face it, the news media needs to create controversy to insure that someone reads or buys their output. While I would agree that buying the Prius solely for its fuel economy might not pencil out very quickly. Having said that I believe most of us drive the Prius as a statement to the community that we care about our world and the legacy that we are creating. It doesn't hurt if you can also drive in the diamond lanes in LA.

The Prius represents a diversion from the traditional paradigm of design and manufacturing. If it were not for the Hybrids from Toyota and Honda the rest of the automotive world would continue to execute against their strategic plans as if very little had changed. Hybrids have forced the industry to pay attention and focus on improving engine efficiency and the resultant savings in gas.

We live in a capitalistic world where the almighty dollar speaks loud and clear. If you want change you need to follow the money. This is precisely why we purchased our first 05 Prius was to encourage an industry to be innovative and brave. Already, Ford, GM, Nissan, Mercedes, and others are forging ahead to make sure they don't miss the opportunity created by the marketplace.

We recently sold our 05 and purchased an 06 cause it penciled out that we would only pay about $1500 over and above our basis in the 05. Originally, I paid $3000 over sticker ($26,9xx) for the 05 which had all the options as well as leather, tint, etcetera. Essentially $30K without tax and lic. The new 06 Prius cost us MSRP at $29,381 and included leather. With tax and Lic and the Federal tax credit we should end up paying about $1500 to $1700 more. What we got was a different color (went from black to white) and zero mileage (Black had 16,000 miles). When we sold the car the buyers wanted more than anything else the diamond stickers that came with the car (LA traffic frustration). I figure what ever turns you on. In the end we helped put two Prius vehicles on the planet rather than two larger cars or trucks. Do I care about the extra money--no not really. What the heck generally cars depreciate anyway. In the end we helped the rest of the automotive world take notice that there is money to be made with high mileage automobiles. Necessity is the mother of invention.

Manny

 

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4018610

I'm confused. The above link says the Prius is a good buy..a top 10 buy!

The CR reports it's a bad buy.

Huh, guess I'll continue to be a happy, satisfied Prius owner (like a previous poster stated). THAT's where the value comes in.

 

Now we are getting somewhere.

The bottom line is that different people will choose different alternative choices, with different opton packages. IF my alternative choice is a manual, bare bones Corolla CE, then the Prius is much more expensive. If my alternative is a Camry with VSC, BT, and Nav, Prius is a no-brainer. Any analysis that purports to set a fixed hybrid premium on the Prius is an idiot (sorry, CR).

Civic vs Hybid Civic, with equivalent packages is a fair comparision, AFTER hybrid tax credits have been taken into account, and local perks are given a $ value (which will again vary from person to person).

I don't know ... this all seems so obvious. Why is the press having such a difficult time ?

 

LOL someones been smokin Crack agian!

My car saved me 3200 the first year in gas money..

DOWN play the HYBRIDS!

dummies...

 

wasn't it the snot nosed CR drivers that only got 40 mpg with a Prius? I guess if you "drive down" the mileage you could eventually get to where the fuel cost was the same as a Corolla.

 

CR Reports, as are most other publications, is just saying the gas savings will never pay for the additional cost of the hybrid to this point anyway. Is that hard for you to comprehend. Aren't most of you driving them for reasons other than saving money? Unless the Camry is priced within $2,500 of the comparable non-hybrid model it will be a flop like the Toyota/Lexus SUV's have been.

By the way on NPr i heard a Lexus hybrid ad, and it never mentioned gas mileage improvement once. do they really think large numbers of consumers are going to pony up big dollars for emissions reductions? Loks like Toyota has made a mistake with consumers? Are you going to arraign me on charges of blasphemy for saying it? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

What were you driving before a dodge with a hemi? Do you drive 100k/ year? or do you pay $10/ gallon for gas?

 

This is a bit older (November 2005), but it is a detailed cost analysis comparing hybrids to non-hybrids. There are some costs not showing, such as maintenance, but overall it's a decent analysis.

http://www.omninerd.com/2005/11/11/articles/41

Personally, it was a second car purchase for my wife and I. We needed to get an additional vehicle anyway, and the Prius was the one we liked. Yes, we could be saving some money if we had gotten something cheaper with around 30 or so MPG, but we are much happier with the Prius, so it's worth it.

 

I get CR. Most of the time I agree with them. But, in this case I totally disagree. There's far more than gas savings to owning a car. Take resale. I dumped a 2002 Hyundai for thr Prius. It cost about $20,000 new. I got $8200 from the dlr. I MIGHT have gotten $10,000 if I sold it outright. However, it had a thirsty 6 cyl. engine that only got 19 MPG/city & 23-25 MPG/hwy.

CR has their own perception about products. I have noticed over the yrs. they are wrong from time to time. I have a Sharp fax machine bought new in 1998. CR gave it a terrible review, but mine has never broke.

The way I see it is how much am I saving each week? About $20-$25 in gas. I will keep this car for a long time. As gas prices go much higher the Prius will be in high demand. The 6 cyl. Hyundai won't be in demand and resale will be squat.

Enough said. CR is a very good mag overall.

Oh- I forgot to mention the $3,150 tax credit the gov. is giving me next tax year. Does that count for savings? In all fairness, CR didn't have that info as far as I know.

 

I have never owned a car that I agreed with CU about.
They generally hate my car choices, and the ones they like I find
totally boring at best.

 

I looked at a 2002 Prius when I bought my 2002 Camry and both were about the same price. When I went to trade last September my Camry was worth $2,000 less then the 2002 Prius was selling for. I figure the Prius to get me about 2x the MPG of what I was getting. With my federal and hopefully state (under recommendation) tax credits (yes I believe I will not pay the Alternative Minimum Tax) my Prius will cost less then my 2002 Camry. I cannot drive a Corolla comfortably as my knees hit the dash on a 2005 anyway. In the Prius I'm comfortable. A comparison between a similarly equipped Camry I believe would be much more honest then to a Corolla. I have like CR also in the past on some issues...I do believe they have an agenda at times. This comparison is illogical this time as interior space is nearly identical to the Camry with the exception of 2-3 inches less width. To me there is no comparison to a Corolla.

Joeh4

 

Malorn,

Check out what other people are actually posting (like Ray) about the actual breakdown. When you compare it just on gas savings alone, it can save you money. It all depends on what you compare it to. Will a Prius save money just on gas over an Echo? Of course not, but neither is that a fair comparison between vehicles. If the assumptions or comparison don't matter, why not just compare it to a motorcycleIf the assumptions or comparison don't matter, why not just compare it to a motorcycle or an Aveo or some other cheap means of transportation without regards to size or quality?

Comparing the base Prius to a base Taurus (our other car) back in 2004, it was pretty much equal (on MSRP). Say you were able to knock of $3k off the Taurus price, with some good haggling. Well in the less than a year and a half, we have saved over $1K in gas based on our MPG on the Taurus. So the $3 is paid off in 2.5-3 years and everything passed 3 years is just gravy.

 

CU (Consumer Reports) has some good points, but to often they cling to outdated paradigms.

It is not mpg, but rather cost per mile (kilometer). This includes insurance, tires, oil changes & maintenace and air quality. Prius more than "pays for itself" in what it does not emit. Toyota engineers put a lot of thought into every component, not just fuel economy. I love it when I come to a stop and the ICE does not idle. I look around and wonder why others continue to drive vehicles that idle, regardless of need, the personal and environmental cost to idle, and ignorance of those who drive vehicles that idle.

CU has a different way of looking at things - be it lawn mowers, hair driers, appliances. All too often CU only has a short-term perspective that greatly limits its vision.

 

I like Consumer Reports and almost always find their work helpful and objective. I think in this case they missed the boat by making their analyis too simplistic. It appears that they are only looking at two variables; vehicle cost and miles per gallon. On that basis, the Corolla is not only superior to the Prius, it is superior to every car that costs more and does not get better mileage than the Corolla. I wonder how many people driving their CR recommended Mercedes E320 realize what a poor choice they made

Seriously, though, it seems absurd to place NO value on the emissions differences between hybrid and nonhybrid cars. If I were only interested in high miles per gallon, I might have considered one of the diesel alternatives, except for that nagging pollution issue. There may well be "less costly" ways to transport myself from Point A to Point B, but why do they only apply that standard to hybrid analysis? Why is a hybrid the only vehicle that is expected to "pay for itself"? Do they ever apply that test to the cars costing far more than the Prius? What car does pay for itself? Where is the "benchmark"?

In any case, I count myself among the 94% of owners who are happy with their purchase and would make the same decision again.

 

Here in Hawaii I paid $28,630 OTD for my 06 Prius (8 no nav). A loaded up Corolla S (D package) goes for $20,485 OTD. With the $3100. tax credit, that's a diff. of $5,045.

Given 18,000 miles per year, and 45 mpg (what I actually get) for the Prius, and 30 mpg (which is doubtful since I live on a hill) for the Corolla, and $2.50/gal for gas, that works out to a gas savings for the Prius of $500/yr or $2500 for 5 yrs.

$5,045. less $2500. equals a difference of $2545. more of a premium for the Prius. Take the leather option ($1200) off the Prius and there's even less difference. So for a diff of $1345., I get a bigger more functional car with SKS, backup camera, HID, etc., not bad I think.

The only way I can think that the Prius won't hold it's value compared to a Corolla is if the price of gas drops (a good thing) or if Hybrid prices drop (a good thing).

When I compare my Prius to the 99 Camry it replaced, the overall savings are greater.

 

I also notice that CR never uses higher end audio/video equip. for comparisons. They seem to pick middle of the road items or items that are "stale."They have saved me quite a bit of $$ and grief- (Staying away from certain products based on prior negative areas).

I seem to remember that they got 55 MPG city with their Prius. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I think they got a combined 44 MPG. But it should be noted that many of the vehicles that they test have pretty low FE numbers. As I recall the Jeep Libery got really horrible rating on mileage.

 

Yep, the folks at CR are consistent about their city fuel economy. Call it "real world" with lot's of red lights. According to the May, 2004 issue of CR, they got 35 city and 50 highway out of their Prius. They managed 14 city and 32 highway out of a 4 cyl Dodge Stratus, and 16 city/38 highway out of a 4 cyl Chevy Malibu.

In the March 2004 issue, they tested full size luxury SUV's. The Cadillac SRX got 11 city and 24 highway. The Dodge Durango Hemi got 8 city and 19 highway.

With my 2000 GMC Sierra (Vortec 5.3 V8) I would get around 12 MPG Imperial gallon in mild temps, no A/C, and around 6 MPG at -40.