Hybrids won't save drivers money, Consumer Reports (April 2006)

Nothing lasts forever. Things do become obsolete at some point. I have a Nokia N9110i Smartphone. Smartest phone / PDA around back in the day. Nobody uses one now, though I still keep mine alive as an antique. I also have a fully functional Nokia N7710 Multimedia colour touchscreen phone (pen based) circa 2005. Another antique I marvel over.

And my 2006 iMac? It still runs, but some thing's as correctly pointed out, will no longer work properly. And for good reason. Computer technology is moving forward at an amazing pace. We have to move with it for very valid reasons (i.e. Security). Case in point; WhatsApp will soon stop running on many older devices as developers can no longer cater for older OSes.
It's called evolution. It's kinda normal.

So, I've invested in a refurbished MacBook Pro, one of those you can still upgrade yourself. And I can now use the newer Mac OS Sierra features recently made available. That's on a 5 year old MacBook Pro. I sure ain't complaining 'bout that.

My 8 year old Prius won't last forever either, but I'm sure getting my money's worth out of it right now.


iPhone ?

 

Amen brother.

Still married to the same wife since 1977. She still laughes at my jokes.

Bob Wilson

 

In fairness, the "hybrids won't save you money" articles started before the gen2 became the must have for the ecochic. Using less gas was taken as using less money by many of those authors, who may or may not have had other motives to write unfavorable things about a small, Japanese made daily driver.

 

Fair enough.....

 

Many people do keep their Prius a long time. I have a 2004 with 302000 km. No major problems. Original hybrid battery. Original brake pads. There are many on PriusChat with more mileage. My Prius has saved me probably $10K in fuel and lots more in repairs compared to a conventional car. It drives now like it did when new (better, actually since my current tires are better).

The Prius is one of the most reliable cars.

According to stats on power-train problems in over 1.2 M US trade-ins, Prius reliability is "Exceptional"
http://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Toyota_Prius.html
The reported failure rates do include hybrid battery failures.

According to owner reports, Prius liftbacks need few repair trips
Reliability by Model Generation | TrueDelta

I never recommend hybrids. I recommend Toyota/Lexus hybrids. Like all cars, there are good hybrids and not so good ones. Sorry about your bad luck with Hondas. Don't assume that applies to Toyota hybrids. It doesn't.

The 2016 Prius has reached price equality with comparable conventional automatic hatchbacks. It will probably save you money if you drive the average amount every year. It will also probably last longer.

 

Finally someone who understands.

Here's the rub: A 2006 Windows PC will still run anything you throw at it. Windows tends to have a longer support cycle of about Double the support cycle for MacOs (most likely because offices demand 10+ year support).

 

Nah I'd rather go for the Corolla. Same Toyota quality... high MPG... no battery replacement. My Prius G3 will likely be my last.

The motors are attached directly to the engine & spins at the same speed. If Honda used a Prius-sized motor, the huge mass would keep the engine spinning for several minutes... like a flywheel. (So instead the Honda motor is quite small.)

I used to lease a hydrogen-powered EV.
The motor has virtually no "engine drag" and
would spin upto an hour if you stayed off the brake & just coasted.

 

You are misguided in your concerns about Prius hybrid battery reliability. Corollas, while good, still have twice the rate of power-train problems as Prius [dashboard-light]. Conventional cars have expensive transmission problems more often than Prius has battery or transaxle problems. Keep the battery cooling vents clear and your G3 will last you a long time. All the while, it is using less fuel, needing less maintenance and emitting less pollution than a Corolla. Buy whatever car you want but don't spread misinformation about the Prius.

 

When looking at all repairs by cost in True Delta, it's essentially tied between the Prius and Corolla. Corolla has slightly better overall reliability there, although both rate as excellent.

I did the opposite of what Troy plans - I went from a Corolla to a Prius. From my standpoint, they're both exceptionally reliable vehicles. Essentially, I found the Corolla is less expensive to buy and the Prius is more roomy, more comfortable, offers more technological features, and gets better fuel economy. So for me, going from a Corolla to a Prius was an upgrade.

 

Laughs at your jokes. She's gotta be a keeper!

 

Well there you go...... and the Corolla doesn't have a battery that will dry-up (or become unbalanced) and require replacement at 10+ years.

Yes I know "batteries never need replaced"......... but look how many posts on this forum from Prius Owners say "I have to replace my battery". Clearly this is a problem that has to faced eventually AND a problem that does Not exist on a nonhybrid car like Corolla. It is one less failure item.

 

According to True Delta data, 12% of Prius repairs cost over $1000 and 12% of Corolla repairs cost over $1000. You're saying that just because you know one expensive-to-fix item exists in one car and not the other, that automatically means it will inevitably break and need fixing, whereas the expensive-to-fix items on the other car will always be fine. That's not logical or accurate.

Mind you, I've owned a Corolla and they're nice cars. So if you want one, feel free to get one. That's your decision and your opinion if you prefer the Corolla. Just like it's my opinion that the Prius is better. But when you share information, I believe it's more helpful when your information is accurate. Stating that the Prius has a hybrid battery and the Corolla doesn't is accurate. Stating that the hybrid battery is a problem and is destined to fail is a misconception.

 

Is it accurate to say that batteries have a finite shelf life? Batteries seem to die sooner or later regardless of how much they're used. Just about everything else on a car that can wear out does so at a rate proportional to how much it's used. For people who don't drive much and keep their cars for decades (like my mom) the battery may very well become an issue they wouldn't have with a non-hybrid.

Let's say you're planning to buy your last new car just before you retire, and you want it to last for 20 years and 50,000 miles (yes, 2,500 miles a year). It's quite reasonable to expect the major components of a normal car to last that long. There's no history to show that it's reasonable to expect a battery to last that long.

 

Agreed. The difference between your post and Troy's post is you gave a specific situation in which a hybrid would be a poor choice and Troy seems (to me) to be implicating that hybrids are always a bad choice. The position that sometimes a hybrid is a poor choice is one that makes sense. But to say they never make sense seems short-sighted.

 

. . . to buy your last new car just before you retire,

• 2014 BMW i3-REx, May 2016
• 2017 Toyota Prius Prime, December 2016

. . . and you want it to last for 20 years and 50,000 miles (yes, 2,500 miles a year).

• Mom lives 700 miles away
• Nearest brothers are 1200, 1600, and 2500 miles away
• Nearest beach (for wife) is 500 miles away
• One set of tires for 20 years?

It's quite reasonable to expect the major components of a normal car to last that long.

• After six months in December, the motor mount bolt broke in the 2014 BMW i3-REx

There's no history to show that it's reasonable to expect a battery to last that long.

• Except for the Gen-1 cars, 2001-03, that still have their original batteries

Batteries can fail for many reasons which teach us lessons on how to avoid these failures in the future. It is called 'the learning curve' and many of our species are pretty good at it. Others prefer to blame the new technology.

Bob Wilson

 

Good points, especially about things like the tires. My mom has a '99 Subaru that has ~30K miles on it. Before that she had an '81 Buick that lasted 18 years and 50K miles. With the Subaru, she did preemptively replace the timing belt and probably a few other things while they were in there. Other than rubber parts and fluids, the car is original everything. It sits in a garage the vast majority of the time and still looks brand new. I'm guessing the car is going to outlive her, which might be a long time.

I'm still not convinced about the batteries, particularly if they aren't used regularly. If I have a hand drill in the basement it will be ready to go when I need it. If I have a cordless drill the battery will be dead if it hasn't been charged in the last few months. Batteries have been around for over a century, we should be on the far end of that learning curve by now.

For people that do use their cars a lot, like you and me, batteries and electric motors seem to be a far better option than turbo-charged, direct and port injected, 10-speed mechanically complex new cars. Or perhaps I'm just afraid of that new technology

 

No. If I meant to say "always" I would have said always. Clearly there's SOME people in the world who are better-off paying $5000 extra to get a Prius or Civic Hybrid, instead of a Corolla or Civic nonhybrid.

I'm just not sure who? Maybe Jay Leno since he has money to waste..... ;-) No kidding. Perhaps someone who lives in the city, though most city dwellers I meet don't own a car at all.

"What for? I don't need one when there's a metro I can use." I think these people are highly intelligent. They save 25 grand by NOT buying a hybrid car. Smart.

 

Nope! I have a 2006 Windows PC that will NOT run anything you throw at it. Beyond a certain operating system, it becomes limited in what it is capable of, just like the 2006 iMac. I regularly urge clients to upgrade where they can afford it.

Both will work as excellent word processors though.

Technically, you can shoehorn the much later OS on to it. Factually, it will struggle because the processor is realistically not up to the task in a great many things we often take for granted with modern technology.

Personally, I prefer a certain degree of planned obsolescence - so you know when to upgrade!

My Gen 2 Iconic Prius is adequate for my present needs and budget. It will get me from A to B like a fully loaded Gen 4, but when I receive a text message, it won't display it or read it out to me.

I can live with that.

It's really not worth trying to shoehorn firmware technology that's 10 years younger than the car into it, so it can mimic certain things a Gen 4 can do. That's your cue to upgrade to a newer model.

I'm happy with my 2006 iMac for what it is, not its ability to run Mac OS Sierra (which it rightfully can't.....and SHOULDN'T).

I also applaud Apple for not deceiving customers with the old Windows trick of years past, where your OS needed more RAM than the minimum they often specified.





iPhone ?

 

Well that's strange. I have a 2001 windows PC and it works just fine..... slow, but it works. I'm posting this message from the 2001 PC right now via the latest chrome browser....... (Meanwhile my 2001 PPC mac is just a doorstop; it refuses to run anything newer than ten years ago.)

I hate planned obsolescence. Can you imagine if your 2001 Prius stopped accepting music CDs printed after 2010? i.e. You can't listen to fresh albums. You wouldn't accept that, and you shouldn't accept it for computers either.

 

sure .....
& you wrote that post 2yrs ago

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I wonder what it's like to be nothing but be contradictory
.