Hybrids will not likely save buyers money, studies show

I saved over 4000$ last year alone compared to the f150 that I had driven previously. There is not another car I would have seriously wanted to drive.

My wife bought a Prius and is currently savint 3000$ per year compared to the ford explorer that she had driven previously.

Fuel is part of the equation and maintainance is another. We save on gas, oil, brakes, tranny service, tune-ups, tires, and other misc. repairs.

These savings pay for 60% of her car payment.

I think that the hummer H2 actually gets almost 11 MPG, not the 9 MPG that we've been led to believe. That's the real scandal. Left-wing environmentalists have led us to believe that the hummer is a gas guzzler beyond comprehension, when it actually gets better mileage than Wolfman's new bus. It's a newsflash. Stop the presses. I have stumbled on a major new revelation based on skewed facts and false premise. Can I have my press pass now?

I'll here about this story from all my friends now, just like all the others.

 

I'm certain the study did not factor in the economic value of several other factors such as:

1. Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle - the cost of smog in terms of health and the simple joys of clean air, good visibility, etc. What will be the ultimate cost of global warming?

2. Less reliance on foreign fossil fuels and the costs of ensuring its availability. In the U.S. today, it's become outrageously astronomical.

3. The time spent refueling - not a big deal, but I like driving past those gas stations for weeks at a time.

Some of the economic values are practically impossible to determine, so we ignore them. But they are there; they are real; and they will cost us more than we care to imagine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco\";p=\"98393)</div>

Evan:

You have crushed the hopes and caused irreparable psychological damage to the vast majority of Corvette owners.

My Response?

HAHAHAHA!

Jay

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius\";p=\"98457)</div>

I moved "up" from a 37mpg Civic, but with 200K miles.

The Prius was just the next logical purchase since EV1s weren't available when I wanted one back in '96, and they're dead now in '05.

additionally:
I'm also enjoy the probable fact that I'm scrubbing the air (in LA) clean from all the bad exhaust the other cars put out as I drive through with the Prius. Try to beat that!

 

open letter to the no-mind BCAA author of the article comparing the Prius to a Matrix.
I took my Classic in for replacement of the front bumper do to an unfortunate incident involving a Kenworth and my parked car. Body shop loaner was a 2004 Matrix with 10700 Km on it. What a piece of Shi* when compared to either my wife's or my Prius. What a gas guzzling hog, rides like a friggin stone boat, and yes I've been on them, steer's like a really bad forklift, and the interior noise from the ICE just sucks. The damn thing won't go into stealth at a stop light no matter how long it's been running, and the jerky tranny, and a very stiff and unresponsive gas pedal. Anybody comparing this to a Prius needs a lobotomy. God I forgot just how archaic cars are compared to a Prius. Now don't get me wrong, the Prius isn't perfect but it's so far down the evolutionary road compared to conventional vehicles that to compare it to a non-hybrid just points out the ignorance of the author of the article.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee\";p=\"98453)</div>

CAMROLLA was the theoretical car we had to invent years back as a proper representation of a traditional counterpart to Prius, since it is a cross between Corolla & Camry on several levels.

That worked really well for constructive analysis, but it suffered from the same thing reporters are still doing... using values based on today's production. Looking a few years ahead, where production of HSD is dramatically higher and built locally, the cost will obviously be lower.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GreenLady\";p=\"98406)</div>

This was a major factor in my buying the Prius as well. The second reason was I wanted to add my small purchase to the promotion of an automobile technology that I thought at the time was essential for my country and my planet.

Only then did I sit down with a calculator to see what this choice would cost me. And since that day, I've discovered a car that is also fun to drive.


Now I no longer think that the Prius is an essential link in the change to the technology that could just save this planet. After all I've read, I now KNOW this to be true.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skruse\";p=\"98450)</div>

To "skruse" and anyone else interested in comparing Prius emissions to their old rides,

http://www.environmentaldefense.org/TailpipeTally/

seems handy because it lists much older vehicles than does the EPA green vehicle guide. Pricing externalities such as air pollution is controversial, but happily, many posters here recognize it.

From all we see so far, Prius resale value is very stong compared to comparables, similars, or whatever to call them.

I'm very interested in the long-term operating costs, but have only 75k miles so far. Outside of scheduled maintenance I have spent $600 including tires. I admit to short-changing Toyota Inc. a bit on maintenence by doing my own oil and filters.

Total operating costs _may_ end up being lower than other vehicles purchased new, and beatable only by keeping and maintaining the old ride. But this brings us back to the tailpipe tally.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu\";p=\"98621)</div>

Curiously, although the Prius consumes 50% as much gas as the Camry, it produces about 75% as much nitrogen oxides and hydrocarbons, and 66% as much carbon monoxide. However, it does produce about 50% as much carbon dioxide, which I would have expected.

 

Maybe the frequent starts increase NOx and CO?

 

http://www.environmentaldefense.org/TailpipeTally/

That's amazing and scary! Even the Prius outputs over 2 tons of CO2 per year.

"Your vehicle emits 2 to 3 times its weight in carbon dioxide per year (about 5 tons each year). U.S. cars and light-duty trucks alone emit more carbon dioxide than entire countries; only 4 countries emit more carbon dioxide from all sources than U.S. cars and light-duty trucks."

 

Ya know, while I am not the best at math, evidence from past posts (eventhough that was a formulation error) Something seems odd about the Prius putting out 4000 pounds of CO2. Thats a lot of wieght, and where does it come from, gasoline?

Assuming the wieght of gasoline is about 4 pounds a gallon, thats 1000 gallons of fuel a year, and assuming a conservative 45 MPG thats 45,000 miles driven per year, a number I am sure is much higher than what they used to calculate the 4000 pound number.

I mean does adding the two oxygen atoms to the carbon atoms released from the tailpipe add that much wieght!

It just seems a little high, so does anyone know how this number was determined, and if it a measured number, how in the heck do you get 4000 pounds of exhaust AFTER burning, especially since CO2 is not the only exhaust gas, and there are emissions controls that are sopposed to reduce the amount of CO2 emitted. So that 4000 pounds should only be representative of a smaller percentage of CO2 that is actually created!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rcroft\";p=\"98439)</div>

How did you come up with $1200? The $2000 the Fed's give you is taken off your income. So your income for this year is reduced by $2000. So if you have a 35% tax bracket you would see $700 and on a 20% bracket you would see $400. These are approximate numbers and YMMV. I did put mine into my Tax software for 2004 and it came to $500.

 

Cheeze Louise! Not another opinionated slanted review! Do'n't these people realize everyiones situation is different. Oh well I guess writers need to write somethig.. its their job!

greenlady - agreed! In making the choice of a prius, I am willing to go the extra mile to protect the earth. In an attempt to save our mother for out childrens children YES We are all doing it! one person at a time, day by day, month by month... hybrid sales numbers are proof.

and VoicesInMyHead...your head is on your shoulders where it should be, not somewhere below!

You did your homework, like I did and probably everyone else in this forum!

I'm going from an '88 Ramcharger (wife around town) + 93 Saturn ( commute) to the saturn + the prius for commuting. I'm keeping the truck for vacations fishing + camping + will put it on my insurance as a limited use vehicle.

I put all my current numbers on a spread sheet and did several "what if" scenarios. I come up with something like $2200 per year savings on gasoline & car repairs! Not to mention the tax breaks.

Oh! and the additional insurance costs on the new vehicle...well I'd pay that no mater what new vehicle I got!

I usually keep cars until they die (as you can tell by the years of my current vehicles) recently I've been saying to myself isn;t it time I get a new car every so often.....

Guess what!

After 5 years I can stash the $2200 savings x 5 thats 11 grand! All I have to do is save $2200 a year and I'll have $22 grand for a new prius / other hybrid every 5 years!!

But wait it gets better...
after 5 years my old prius will have about 100k miles, a great resale value, (it will be garaged and well kept). so forget saving $2200 a year I'l probably only need 4 or 5 grand + my trade in + the 11 grand I save over the 5 years of driving my old prius

 

i think your calculations would be more accurate if you used a more reasonable weight for gasoline which actually weighs just under 8 lbs per gallon. but gasoline since it needs to combine with the air to burn actually puts out more than its weight in exhaust anyway