Hybrids challenged by regular cars on fuel economy: Washingtonpost.com

Interestingly my 2000 C5 Corvette had an instant mpg display but my 2000 Trans Am, 2001 Sierra 4x4, and 2002 Silverado did not.

I don't believe government should get involved and require that manufactures install these gauges. I do think any manufacture that wants to really present the image that they are trying to improve fuel economy and greenwash themselves should install an instant and average MPG gauge on all of their cars. I believe it would indeed change a lot of people's driving habits. It changed mine.

 

I recall my dad's Grand Cherokee (95 MY i think) had one of the gauges. The numbers were so low that he never wanted to look at it lol. Were lucky to get 25 mpg on the highway, and was closer to about 12-13 around town.

I nearly $h!t myself when I had to drive it for a week around town after I had been hit in one of my cars. I was waiting for the insurance to total it (it was a 95 protege, which I really loved).

 

Oh I agree. But I still look at this as more "spin" than lies. And I don't think it changes the fact that I take it as a sign of the success of Hybrids that we've reached a point where ICE vehicles are marketed with comparisons to Hybrids. It wasn't that long ago, when Hybrids weren't even perceived by the majority as even worthy of making a comparison. Now they WANT headlines saying their cars "challenge" hybrids...that's a marker of Hybrid success.

And I am for advancements where ever they may come. If the success of Prius is forcing even slight incremental advancements in ICE design with an eye to greater efficiency? Then I'm happy.

And Justin Bieber, he's just a young kid, performing music that is popular with the masses, kind of like Mozart.

 

I've thought a couple times about posting a poll to guess which mfr. will truly second source the Prius and when. The Insight II does not count as it is IMA. I'm talking about a full hybrid Prius copy. Someone is going to duplicate the Prius, it's inevitable. It was 11th highest selling car in Feb '11. Most cars on this list are nearly copies of something else - Camry, Accord, Altima, Fusion, Malibu, Sonata ... all just about the same.

Top 20 Best-Selling Cars In America - February 2011 - Good Car Bad Car

 

It seems the exterior has already been copied by a lot of manufacturers. As for the interior I doubt that will happen en masse. The spaceship feel puts a lot of older people off. The people that like woodgrain dashes and large gauges. Not because they want more info, just because they wouldnt be able to see it otherwise. Copying the PSD wont happen without patent licensing in the major markets. However, I do not think China is a first-to-patent country, it is a first-to-invent country. At least I have heard mutterings of that 'round here. So I am not sure if it would hold up there.

If not, my money is on BYD Auto making a full clone. They are chinese, they make batteries, they already make electric cars, and they are made cheap enough to compete.

 

I think Toyota did a really smart thing choosing the PSD system for the Prius. It's mechanically simple, but electronically very complex, which makes it very difficult to copy.

Anybody can put together a planetary gearset... But to hook it up to both a gas engine and two motors + battery pack and have everything operating in a coordinated fashion is a whole different ballgame entirely.

To date the only other auto maker that has done this is Ford, and maybe GM if one wants to count the Volt as a PSD vehicle.

My money would be on a Ford Focus Hybrid hatchback, if another automaker would come out with a PSD car that is close to the Prius in terms of size class, functionality and fuel economy.

 

I regret to inform conventional car lovers / marketers /manufacturers / journalists / advertisers, etc, etc ... that ...

conventional cars do not challenge hybrids in terms of fuel economy until they challenge them in BOTH the EPA city fuel economy rating AND highway rating. IOW, nearly equal combined rating.

but like 'electric me' said, it's good to be the FE king, just don't get complacent

 

Yes, it's time for the Prius to be upgraded to SuperCharging..!!

Miller cycle engine, lower engine displacement volume but higher HP/torque but only when needed. Variable volume positive displacment SuperCharger using a variable frequency A/C drive. Eliminate the throttle plate entirely.

 

The crux of this argument is that anything that can be done to improve the mileage of a conventional car can also be done to improve the mileage of a hybrid vehicle. In other words, you can take a conventional car and optimize it for mileage. After you have finished squeezing out the last few MPGs, you can add a hybrid system and make it even better. Hybrids trump standard cars for mileage because of this.

The disadvantages of a hybrid are increased cost and weight. The advantages are mileage or performance (you can optimize one or the other) and mechanical simplicity (in the case of HSD). Weight is somewhat offset by not needing an automatic transmission.

The rest of the discussion is mostly arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Tom

 

You get punished on fuel economy by driving in the city / getting stopped at lights in conventional cars. The fuel still burns at the stop light, but you are not gaining any mileage on the meter.

Catch a red light in HSD, no big, regen brakes, then ICE off at light. Roll off the line on battery.

Yesterday, saw posts from morons on Top Gear commenting of CT200h, saying Toyota ought to ditch HSD, it's a worthless 'in-between' technology. 'Course the posters knuckles are dragging on ground also.

If the 3rd gen Prius had a 1.8 L Otto conventional ICE with automatic, betcha it would be sunk to about 30 MPG combined give or take 2.

 

Yes, like the light bulb and internet.

 

Lexus CT200h weights virtually the same as the Mazda 3 (5 doors hatch). 42 MPG from a Luxury hybrid vs. 25 MPG from a standard brand car.

 

There you go . . . . . ah la road warrier:


.

 

same engine just otto cycle is in the lighter Corolla, so I think thats pretty good comparo there. People average around 32-33mpg vs 48-49 mpg for Prius Gen3, on fueleconomy.gov.

50% improvement aint bad .

once again, so far, 2011 Elantra AT is doing worse than Corolla and Civic which should get significantly less mpg according to EPA.

 

Really? Where is that info coming from?

 

in-between, certainly, worthless, hardly. the same people slate slow development of EV's every week, but also bemoan petrol prices. you'd think they could join the dots themself...

 

The best in-between we have so far.

 

real world info like fueleconomy.gov and elantra forums... plenty of people there cant reach their previous Corolla and Yaris ratings.

 

nothing in-between about it... HSD is valuable for every future vehicle to be produced, be it EV, Hybrid-Petrol, Hybrid-Diesel, Hybrid-Gas, Hybrid-Hydrogen, etc.. They all benefit from HSD technology one way or another.

 

Those claiming that one head is better than two do not understand the concept of synergy created between the two.

Two heads are better than one.