Hybrids are done. Nobody cares anymore

-What the masses don't yet understand about these other performance-minded hybrids is the combo of the highest fuel economy, lowest emissions, and best performance of the respective models. Perhaps the image that hybrids are made for fuel economy are ingrained so much that when evaluating hybrids other than the Civic, Insight, and Prius they look only at fuel economy vs the other cars of the lineups - without realizing the other benefits of the hybrid model.

-I would like to signify a comment (in defense of Prius sales) about the lower monthly basis for the early MY 2006 sales:

"Prius sales were down in March, but Toyota spokesman Sam Butto attributed that to production issues as the automaker gets ready to start building the Camry Hybrid."

-http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/14337248.htm

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Betelgeuse @ Apr 13 2006, 10:28 PM) [snapback]239545[/snapback]</div>

I agree there have been supply issues with the Prius. THe Prius and possibly the civic hybrid have been the exceptions. The rest of the hybrids appear to be going nowhere fast from a sales rate angle. Maybe that will change, but until there is an easy cost-benefit story to sell, I think the rest of the hybrid segment will be a dud.
It is hard for me(I'm not alone) to say that hybrids are being purchased by the masses at this point. When hybrid sales reach 10% of the total sales total, I will begin to see them as a "vehicle embraced by the masses". Until then they will be a great marketing tool of Toyota and to a lesser degree Honda.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Apr 14 2006, 07:41 AM) [snapback]239638[/snapback]</div>

I agree fully with this. Until you start getting more zap for your hybrid $. I'd never pay 40K for a hybrid SUV that gets a (hold on to your hearts) 30somethingish MPG under optimal conditions, it's just not enough.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Apr 14 2006, 08:05 AM) [snapback]239653[/snapback]</div>

What percentage of the total market will be comprised of hybrid sales in one year, two years and three years? i wish I could still create a poll. It would be interesting to look back and see who is closer to the truth? There has to be an easily distinguished benefit for hybrids to continue to make sales inroads. The prius can usually make a great case for this, but a highlander hybrid or a lexus highbrid? No way, and I think the sales rates will back me up.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Apr 13 2006, 04:20 PM) [snapback]239311[/snapback]</div>

I think hybrids are starting to reach a critical mass in a sense. Not in the sense that the majority of vehicles are going to be hybrid soon, but there are so many more sold, that it is getting to the point that a big percentage of people know someone who has one. So what does that matter? Well, the less they are seen as only cars for treehuggers or liberal nut jobs, the more they are seen for lots of people regardless of their political and environmental views.

I have noticed a gradual increase of hybrids around here in Lubbock (not exactly an environmental or art community). Mostly Priuses, but also a number of HCH, HH, and even Lexus 400h. You still can't go to the dealer in town and buy one off the lot unless you are extremely lucky.

 

I agree you can lie pretty well with statistics.

That's why I like to read the stats on number of days the car sat on the lot before being bought. If the average number of days a Prius sits on a lot is less than a week and the number of days a Hummer sits on a lot adds up to several months...I'd say the Prius is more popular.

When the supply outstrips the demand, I'd say that "thing" isn't popular.

When the demand outstrips the supply, I'd say that "thing" was very popular.

So I'd say the Prius was very popular. Not all hybrids are as popular as the Prius. Making a generalization about all hybrids is like making generalizations about all SUVs or all Fords or all diesels. It's too broad.

And I don't think you're ever going to find an accurate and unbiased article about hybrids or the Prius, because writers have something in mind to prove and they'll use whatever they can to prove it. Sometimes two different writers using the same statistic to prove opposite viewpoints.

Give it up.

I like my car. And when people ask questions I answer them.

There ain't nothing like word of mouth.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Apr 13 2006, 12:28 PM) [snapback]239150[/snapback]</div>

In that line, No, BUT they are going to give a kiss after each one because they know most people like to be kissed after they've been *&!&*)&).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 14 2006, 05:59 PM) [snapback]239881[/snapback]</div>

Going by that logic, the Insight must be selling like hotcakes.

But we know it isn't so.

However, nobody's going to deny that the Prius is more popular than a H2/H3.

 

Adam Smith asserted that a better product would always win out in a free marketplace. Karl Marx pointed out that the fallacy in this idea was that it assumes an encyclopedic knowledge of products on the part of consumers.

Neither Smith nor Marx had television, and so could not fathom the effect that advertising and commercial propaganda would have on public perception.

Hybrid technology is still in its public-relations infancy, and the vast majority of the general public still holds extreme misconceptions about it. Also, the public does not know how to think critically. If five Priuses out of the entire fleet die on the freeway due to a computer malfunction, they'll be afraid to buy one. But if 10% of the fleet of Fords dies on any given day due to more mundane malfunctions and general poor construction, they'll brush that off as normal wear and tear.

The Prius is a better car, but its acceptance in the marketplace will take a period of time proportional to the level of ignorance among the car-buying public. Hybrid is the future of personal automobiles. But GM will fight it tooth and nail out of pure stubbornness. I bet the GM board room is still full of tobacco smoke.

 

The most important and overlooked fact about the Prius in this discussion and in the articles that report on gas savings and payoff of a hybrid premium is this-

The Prius is the only hybrid vehicle that is practical enough and interesting enough to get a huge number of people to trade in their gas guzzlers. When threads have run here about what people traded in to get their Prius, the answers are SUVs, F150s, BMWs, and other large, low MPG vehicles. Very few people traded in their carolla for a Prius.

The savings that most people experience are huge, because, like me, they used to get 15 MPG in their old vehicle. If it were not for the Prius, it would be hard to get real excited about driving an economy car.

The hatchback makes the Prius a very practical car and in fact it has the same overall interior room as the new Camry hybrid. If you add the passenger volume and the luggage volume, the Prius has a hair more total interior room. I don't think many people that are waiting for the Camry hybrid know that the Prius has more front seat head and leg room and only falls short in hip and shoulder room. All this from a vehicle that is 14" shorter and has a 2' tighter turning diameter.

The Prius wasn't designed to be a hybrid. It was designed to be a car for the 21st century. It became a hybrid only when all other attempts to increase the mileage by 50% over the carolla failed. They didn't set out to create a hybrid car. They set out to meet these criteria-

Small exterior for ease of driving in future congestion.
Large interior and high seating and headroom for ease of entry and exit for an aging population.
Lower emissions to meet higher future emissions standards.
Lower fuel consumption due to increasing fuel prices.

Those goals have not changed and they have continued to meet those goals with the Prius. The Prius is a one of a kind car that includes a hybrid powertrain as part of achieving it's multi-faceted mission of creating a car for the 21st century. It is unfortunate that it has been painted as a hybrid car, rather than as a modern car with a hybrid powertrain.

As far as demand goes, we currently have record high gasoline futures without anything of real significance having occured. If we actually have an embargo or serious supply disruption, it will be Katy bar the door. So far all we've really experienced is a small disruption in Iraq due to the war and a miniscule disruption in the Gulf of Mexico due to the hurricanes last year. These total to a reduction of less than 3% of toatal worldwide output, which has been replaced, with some effort, by other sources. Anything as significant as the shocks of '73 or '79 and we will see a drastic increase in prices and car lots will not have room for all the guzzlers that will be traded in.

I'm sorry this post has bounced around but that's what happens when I read 90 posts and then respond.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 15 2006, 10:55 AM) [snapback]240160[/snapback]</div>

Excellent points. Lots of people still don't really understand what "hybrid" means. I can't tell you the number of times that smart people have asked me, "So, where do you plug it in?" And many, many, many people have a general fear of computers and when they hear that the Prius is controled by "computers," they are already wary. Then, when they hear of a few cars having computer problems, that settles it for them. Nevermind that it was only a tiny fraction that ever had problems. Nevermind that Toyota addressed the problem relatively quickly. Nevermind that all cars built today rely on computers of some sort. It's something new, so it's something to be feared.

Us early adopters are going to be the main people that have these cars until people start to realize that hybrids are something to be admired rather than feared.

 

The early adoption process and numbers would be so much more telling if those entrenched in the old paradigm wouldn't try so hard to protect their turf, but just shut up and let the market forces work. I swear, if people in this country worked as hard to promote the future instead of protect the past we would all be ahead of the game. Whether it's senators or drug dealers, they spend all their energy protecting existing turf instead of developing new. The bastards keep holding me down every time I try to fly! I felt this way even in elementary school in the '50's. We of unlimited potential classically play to the lowest common demonator in our whole society.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ray Moore @ Apr 15 2006, 12:30 PM) [snapback]240175[/snapback]</div>

Talk about an eye opener. I hadn't stopped and thought about that nothing had really happened to get the increase we are currently seeing. This makes me genuinely worried about what might happened if there was a serious disruption of oil output. It has gotten back up to Katrina/Rita levels, without any hurricanes and we are just not coming up on hurricane season again. Will gas $5 a gallon, $10 a gallon, or even higher? The market will be flooded with those guzzlers and people that don't trade their guzzler in the first wave may be stuck with the huge bills as market value on any tradein or sell will be zilch.

 

just saw a blurb on the local news that hybrid sales are slowing to the point that honda has cut the HCH production levels by 53%. the FEH is averaging 61 days on the lot.

kinda funny though, although a pic of a Prius was displayed in the background while presenting the segment, they didnt mention how the Prius was doing or whether its readily available.

pretty sure there is still a waiting list around here