How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

the Volt video proves almost nothing. a gen 2 Prius probably could have made it too. momentum means a lot.

 

One would think a leading car company like Toyota would get it right by the second major revision of a vehicle.

Guess not.

A working TCS will prevent uncontrolled wheel spin regardless of input throttle. The Prius system did not prevent the wheels from spinning uselessly.

That's why the Volt driver stopped near the end of the video before continuing on the slope. The tires slipped a little after that and the car gained momentum smoothly. Perfect TCS behavior.

 

As the gen 3 would have been.

What is your agenda? i don't know why i'm asking, you're clearly a weird volt troll, but i can't understand why.

 

True he rants on about the volt providing 100% of commuters needs if allowed to plug in at work...

 

If Toyota knew about the non functioning TCS in the Gen2, then they should issue a recall either to fix it with a new drivetrain or add a disable switch.

Climbing up a gentle slope must have been in the winter test loop.

 

I have been through five NY winters. My Gen2 Prius works flawlessly. I have not been stuck. I even drove on the days Lyle didn't drive his Volt.

I like to see a video of Volt going up an icy slope and making it up there.

 

Was getting over 37mpg in the GM test loop?

 

The "soon to be released" Prius Plugin has a dismal 6 mile EV range in cold weather.

Here's an unbiased report on the "soon to be released" Prius Plugin's prowess in cold weather.

quote: The low temperature meant that as soon as we put the Toyota Plug-In Prius in reverse to back out of our driveway, the engine started and ran until it reached operating temperature, which it needs to be in order to respond when it's needed.
So for the first several miles, the engine was running and consuming fuel. So much for that electric-only advantage of the Plug-In Prius.
Toyota Plug-In Prius prototype: Cold-testing Toyota's socket-ready hybrid - National auto review | Examiner.com

 

The PHV is a hybrid. Changes in the software to run the engine more under the cold extremes for better use of electricity from the battery-pack isn't a big deal. In fact, tweaks like that are exactly why Toyota is currently having consumers do the testing.
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The link you provided does not say that.

In fact per this DOE study, if you use the preconditioning feature, there is minimal EV range drop for the Prius PHV (PHEV15). Both the Volt (PHEV40) and Leaf (EV) take a huge hit. That's the power of variable blending strategy when both powertrains are working as a team - Synergy in eCVT at work.

 

That's what make it interesting in here for an unvested participant, there's always a fire to put out somewhere.
Keep up the good work on the Volt.

Thanks for the clarification.

A dedicated coolant system for the battery makes a lot of sense.

Electrically driven A/C's are the way of the future so of course the Volt has one.

I think USW2000 (and others like him/her in this forum) see the future from the viewpoint that the "soon to be released" Prius Plugin is really not much better than the regular Prius HV.
Yes, I agree that the low end (PHEV10) plugin's do not make much sense.

The "soon to be released" Prius Plugin goes down to 6 mi EV range in cold weather. Ouch.

Exactly.

The current Prius only has an air cooling system for the battery.
I highly doubt that would be changed in the "soon to be released" Prius PHV.

Indeed, designing for efficiency is always a compromise.

Thanks for posting here.

The "EV range" for the "PHEV15" in this study allows for ICE operation whereas the EV range for the PHEV40 is a true (purely electrical, no tailpipe emissions) EV range.

quote: Figure 2 presents results for the PHEV15. This vehicle was modeled to use both engine and battery as needed in a blended fashion....

In the "PHEV15" simulation, running in CD mode uses the ICE. Of course, running an ICE on the side to generate heat will result in less degradation of battery life in CD mode.

I find it misleading that these studies insist on crediting the "PHEV15" ("soon to be released" Prius Plugin) with a 15mi AER when in fact it doesn't even have any AER.

The "soon to be released" Prius Plugin is a PHV15 not a PHEV15.

 

The plug-in Prius is a hybrid. Who's claiming an AER of 15 miles? Look closer, it's a 15-mile capacity equivalent, not the actual distance.

Significantly boosting MPG is the point, not trying to avoid ever using a drop of gas.

Of course, the supposed 35 of AER for Volt falls well short of that value for distance anyway.
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"Of course, the supposed 35 of AER for Volt falls well short of that value for distance anyway."

It was "40 miles EV range on 8 kwh." by GM hype and hoopla.
Too bad reality is 25 miles on 13 kwh in the winter.
Even by GM standards of BS, over-estimating by 260% is impressive.

 

That's the beauty of Hybrid Synergy Drive. Power Split Device (PSD) becomes Power Blending Device (PBD) without any extra hardware. This is another example of HSD doing more with less.

It is important to note that eCVT is working in reverse during the blending. Instead of splitting power from ICE variably, it is blending variably. Volt does not do this with it's planetary gearset.

The result is higher efficiency from both the battery and the gas engine. The end result is what really matters. How it is achieved is the magic of synergy enabled by clever use of existing hardware.

This is why an EV button does not make sense for Prius PHV. EV button would basically disallow reverse eCVT. It would separate the battery from the gas engine and prevent the teamwork interaction.

 

couple of things. That driveway looks like it's covered with black ICE. Not snow. I doubt anything short of AWD would make it up that.

The road the volt goes up looks sanded. Plus the volt got a running start - it could have coasted up that hill.

This is totally not fair.

 

PHV is a hybrid. It uses the best of two fuel sources to reduce energy usage as much as possible. If it recognises in winter that it needs 10kw of drive power and 5kw of heat at the same time do you know what it does? it brings on the engine, supplying 5kw of drive power and 5kw of heat, and takes 5kw of power from the battery. Once it no longer needs the 5kw of heat the engine drops off and the 10kw of drive power comes from the battery. What does volt do? it pulls all 15kw from the battery, even though it has several gallons of fuel on board, and it could burn through something like 0.1gal to get you up to temp. it does that for a couple of reasons, one to fulfill the "it's an EV" hype, it aint, it's a bad hybrid. secondly, using the engine must be avoided at all costs since it's efficiency and emissions are piss poor.

Volt: A hybrid that ignores one fuel source at the expense of another. It is the worst of both worlds.

Prius: A hybrid which blends two fuel sources based on demand. It is the best of both worlds.

Tpfun, any response to the fact my DIY plugin is better than the volt?

 

PHV so much different from PHEV!

Yes, as a Volt not ever consuming gas during its EV mode.
Yes, and for your POV, it is a complete non-sense.

Come on, "Toyota Prius Fun", go home and have a life. You are making fun
of yourself. And in public domain. :rockon:

 

My perspective here is that the Volt will be one of many vehicles, just like the plug-in Prius, that will build the market for electric vehicles in the longer term.

I think some of the denigration of the Volt though is unwarranted. It is clearly a first generation product, and as such, has numerous trade-offs. I don't think it's the right vehicle for everyone, but out West, it's not bad for people in more temperate climates with daily commutes.

The Hybrid powertrain in the Prius has been the leader; my point is that Toyota needs to keep pushing the envelope. Incremental change is not what will maintain the leadership in the long term. Do I think they are cognizant of this? Yes. Do I think they are addressing it fast enough? No.

In my case, I opted for a CT 200h (picture update forthcoming!) to replace my Gen III Prius as I'm waiting for either the second generation of these range-extended electric vehicles or updated electric only vehicles that will provide me with sufficient range. You may ask what drove me away from the Prius? The consumption wasn't bad for my daily routing. I simply got tired of the Prius' lackluster handling and motoring experience.

The Volt, for what it's worth, handles on the road every bit as good as a Prius, if not better. Reliability is a question, and for me, reliability and handling were paramount this time around in terms of decision points. As a result, I didn't pursue the Volt further.

We should be aware that others aren't going to sit still and not innovate. This is the good news: for consumers, it's going to get fun again. Competition is a good thing.

 

Its a phev it is just blended. The study is old and we have newer better information about the grid and the cars. The study gives the volt a penalty that is already included in the EPA. The prius phv will likely get a blended range of around 11 as the EPA test will multiply the test by 0.7, and use both gasoline and electricity to create a blended MPGe.

In the very cold sub zero temperatures blended looks like it has a big advantage versus a pure BEV. I have no idea if the volt does a good job, the prius with a range of 6 cold weather miles seems to have a much too small battery. But will it include a cold weather package with ebh and greatly outperform a standard prius in the cold? We don't know. We also don't know if the actual cars will do better than the demo cars. If your doing an la type cycle in moderate weather the volt will outperform its epa rating. I think these studies need to look at reality including the phev conversions.

+1

Congratulations on your new car! I agree the competition is good. Volt and phv might help us get where we want to go.

 

The acronym jungle is a mess and it doesn't help when these studies compare fundamentally different vehicles and still call them all PHEVn's.
A PHEVn vehicle must be able to run in pure EV mode (no ICE) for that many miles.

In emissions tests, ICE generates 50% during cold start so that can't be a good thing running short trips in blended mode. This is yet another factor in favor of the high PHEV's which no studies take in account.