How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

I was not implying efficiency (perhaps true as well), but from the energy density and the refueling speed point of view. Gasoline is superior than battery for high speed or long distance.

On CS mode, what happens when you run into highway traffic jam, becoming like city traffic? When you arrive after the long travel, do you not ever go through city traffic?

 

It's more than that. Volt technically fits 4 people, but in reality, two in the back better be far under 6ft..

From the get go, Prius was a 5 seat sedan. I still remember piling 5 of us techies in a 2001 and zipping out to lunch.

I do believe believe most green car buyers priorities are - practicality, efficiency, comfort, reliability, usable space and somewhat less for design, looks, handling and extra performance.

 

I would throw low emission and HOV lane access in there as well.

There are some purists that put the wants (35 EV miles) before the needs. For them, the want to run the first 35 miles purely on the battery is far greater than the rest.

Volt does turn on the gas engine during very cold weather and during engine maintenance mode (every 6 weeks). Yet the lure of the 35 miles made it all ok.

 

In your complaints against the Volt burning gas it also burns off the whole tank once a year regardless of what you do as well. It will also burn gas if you open the hood with the car turned on. You can also add in there that if you put it in Mountain Mode the engine comes on with 14EV miles left on the battery. That's a whole love of environment destruction along with all the nasty coal plants that make over 50% of our great nations electrical power. :rockon: Personally I think burning gasoline is the lesser of the 2 evils in the Volt. That is just me though.

 

I'd rather not burn any gasoline at all. Listening to PiP and Volt advocates arguing about which burns less gasoline, or which uses its gasoline "better" is rather black humor. BTW, I've had three adults (including myself) and a grown teenager in a Zap Xebra. Leg room in back is limited, but tall folks fit. Now that I've switched from the Xebra to the Tesla, I don't have to burn gasoline when I go on the highway, except my road trips, where no EV will yet make the trip in a day, and charging stations do not exist.

For trips under 100 miles, the Leaf is better than either Volt or Prius, and for trips over 100 miles, a conventional Prius is better than the Volt, and much cheaper than the PiP. (I think someone told me that the PiP should get better highway FE than my 2004 Prius, but I don't remember for sure.)

 

Problem is, folks tout 'highway' ... when real world is blended with city. For some, City mpg in the Volt is only 27mpg

GM Fervently Denies Sub-30 MPG Fuel Economy Claim for Chevy Volt | PluginCars.com

That kind of "very best scenario" dishonesty is what bugs so many regarding GM's Cruz commercials ... 42mpg. Right ... under highway conditions sometimes ... if you have one of the few stick shift models.
So, for the OP, the short answer is - in a somewhat pigeon holed driving experience where your commute is under 40 miles, AND you can afford $40,000 for a 4 seater ... AND you have PV grid tied solar ... and if you're not, the your state is not dependent of 50% coal for electricity, or, if you have a less expensive Gen II Prius for long trips as a 2nd car, then yes, the Volt is a great commuter car. In that Pigeon hole, I think all can agree, that the Volt will be better for that small group, than the PiP (if GM can figure out how to stop 3 out of a few thousand from catching fire).

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I certainly agree that gasoline is very convenient. EVs can't match that yet but I'm not sure they have to. If they can match the inherent need of their human drivers for the occasional "bio break" that should be good enough. I would be quite happy with a 300 mile range and a 45 minute quick charge time much like the Tesla Model S is aiming for. I don't expect to buy that for a semi-reasonable price until I'm ready to sell my Volt in 10 years.

If I'm driving much beyond my battery range before a charging opportunity then I use Mountain Mode as a crude "hold button" to reserve around 15 miles of battery range. When I reach my highway exit, I return to normal mode which frees up that reserve for local full-power electric driving. If I go through a short stretch of slow highway traffic I don't care but if it becomes extreme I may revert to normal mode early before exiting. This has not been a practical problem for my driving pattern.

 

I noticed your link was to an article written a year ago before actual customers were driving the Volt in the real world and maybe before the EPA mileage numbers were announced. That's pretty irrelevant at this point.

I would guess that the large majority of city miles driven in Volts on the road are done on battery power. That's certainly true for me.

The car industry is full of "very best scenario" marketing. Compared with other non-hybrids the Eco Cruze gets good overall mileage although you are absolutely right that the poor relative city mileage of non-hybrids drags down their real efficiency compared to hybrids with similar highway-only estimates.

The truth is that the Nissan LEAF's "100 miles" and the PiP's "15 miles" EV range are also optimistic. They can be achieved by knowledgable drivers but average customers will get less.

 

Don't know.. Depending on how fast you are going/how long the engine is on you CAN get MPG in the 20's. I have seen it myself. Unless you are going to be on the highway, or keep the engine on for a long time the end result is pretty bad. Every couple months I seem to need to use about .2-.4 gallons here and there, and by the time I figure out my gas mileage (on its own, I don't factor in the EV miles) it sometimes works out to be 24-28mpg. My best is 42mpg, and that was driving the car for 638 miles straight. That is the only time I have ever seen mileage in the 40's though. Other than that I avoid the gas engine like the plague unless I need it to get home.

On electric I am not doing to bad. With the cold weather I have gone down from about 4.5mi/kwh to about 3.9mi/kwh with sparing use of the defroster to defog the windows. Has been a blessing since I got the L2 put in cause at least I can pre-heat the car before I leave saving me battery juice for the road.

 

Sure, if you are using gas in small amounts like the last couple of miles of a 40+ mile total drive you are going to see city gas-only mileage in the 20s. Similar things would happen if you only drove a Prius for 2 miles each way on a 4 mile daily commute. Similar things will happen with the PiP and trips which are just beyond the reach of its battery range.

Another factor can be the battery buffering in hybrid mode. If you reset the odometer and then drive around in city traffic for a few miles the mpg shown can bounce around quite a bit depending upon where you are in the battery buffer. If you have only driven a few miles and you check the mpg right after the engine has shut down then the mileage will be at the low end. You would need to drive around for at least 15-20 miles around town in one session to let the longer term mileage average-out to a fair number.
Otherwise, you could also capture unrealistically high mpg numbers by capturing them just at the end of the battery buffer right before the gas engine kicks in to generate more electricity.

 

You are not driving the Volt as "EREV" as designed but rather like a PiP.

 

Oh noes! I PiPed my ride!!

The horrors.

But actually, no, temporarily holding my charged up joules is not the same as having gassy emissions and a discharging Prius.

 

LOL, yea don't PiP your Volt.

 

Not really. His Volt is still not blending gas and electric for the most efficient use. He's just saving his electrons for use on the surface roads.

 

It doesn't have to blend. Since majority of his miles used gas, he is extending gas miles with electric miles.

If you view it from a single trip perspective, he is blending gas and electric in the entire trip.

 

My point was that he is not causing the Volt to operate like a PiP. The Volt is an EV for the first 25 (???) to 35 miles, depending on whether Mountain Mode is used, and is a series hybrid after that. The PiP is a series/parallel hybrid (what John likes to call a "full" hybrid) over 62 (???) mph and when power demand is large, and an EV only at slower speed and lighter power demand, and for a significantly shorter distance.

Do what you like, for good or for ill the Volt cannot operate like a PiP.

 

PiP can flip between EV and HV mode. That's what I was getting at.

 

I am really at odds as to which I would prefer. The higher gasoline mileage with 15 EV miles, or the 40 EV miles I get now and the 37mpg rating. So far knock on wood I have not used any gas lately, and the temps have been down in the 30's. With my L2 charger I can pre-heat the car so I do not have to worry about not having heat in the morning. That has been a HUGE plus. This morning though they closed the Hampton Bridge Tunnel right as I was trying to go to work so I had to sit there from 5-6am.. So I did wind up burning just over 1kwh cause I wound up using the heater to bump up the cabin temp again.. It does seem the more I use it the better it works now. Granted maybe it is because it is getting so cold out that it makes it seem like the heater works now. Granted using the heater today dropped my projected range when I started from 42 to my actual being 36ish. (drove 22 + 14 estimated remaining). Not bad for the start of winter.

 

WOW!! u guys are still at it!! amazing. anyway...probably old news but a good baseline for pricing comparisons. (need i say which car was first?? under 75 miles that is) the Prius (no plug) is still on top...if you drive over 100 miles

Leaf, Volt tests show electric cars cost less per mile to operate

 

This guy went 75 miles in his volt because of down hill driving.

75Miles on a single charge