How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

It doesn't apply well to the topic.

That's why gallons & kWh consumed are such a good measure.
.

 

I'm enormously grateful as well. Never thought another new car would interest me because the expense didn't outweigh what you ended up getting. So getting this GEN I with all its features, comforts, HANDLING, and PERFORMANCE for an "economy" car is very impressive. It is funny to listen to folks before and after a demo and then letting them test drive. It never fails how blown away they are.

45 electric miles all summer long here in Chicagoland and running the A/C to keep cool. Hit 50 one night and it included the last 15 on the highway.

 

It is not gallons saved but rather substituted with kWhs of electricity.

Saving gasoline requires no replacement with another form of energy.

 

Here is another aspect of the 2011 Volt - STANDARD (not an option). Some audiophiles don't like anything that says Bose but many audio appreciative folks are very impressed with how the Volt's sound system works.
Personally I was into Home Theaters in a previous addiction. I have a dedicated room that took a couple years to design and put together from scratch. "Perfect" speaker angles/height, sound deadening material at different heights and reflective points. I used sound pressure meters to tune my speakers dB levels for my sweet spot, etc. I *only* say this to add some credence to the fact I like good sound. Various levels of audiophiles on the Volt forum have chimed in that they are impressed with the sound system in the Volt as well.
------
Volt Sound System - 30% smaller, 40% lighter and uses 50% less energy



Bose Energy Efficient Series Sound System in Chevy Volt - Industry News - Car Audio and Electronics

In all the hoopla surrounding the new Chevrolet Volt not many people have discussed the type of entertainment system in the vehicle. As you might expect, you can't have the usual in an unusual car. The Bose Energy Efficient Series sound system uses a proprietary design and exclusive Bose technologies. The new sound system delivers premium high-quality audio, but is 30% smaller, 40% lighter and uses 50% less energy than automotive sound systems with comparable performance.

Bose High Efficiency Technology
The Bose Energy Efficient Series sound system features Bose switching amplification, High Motor Force speakers and proprietary control circuitry to reproduce sound at concert hall volumes, while reducing its power consumption by half. The Bose amplifier runs cooler than conventional linear amplifiers, and uses a smaller, lighter heat sink, significantly reducing its size and weight. Using exclusive control circuitry and switching technology, its energy consumption is dramatically reduced, yet it delivers eight channels of custom equalization to power the speakers: three High Motor Force woofers, one located in each front door and one integrated in the spare-tire well, two 1-inch tweeters integrated in the A-pillar; and two 4-inch neodymium mid/high-range speakers, placed in the rear doors.

Using select materials and custom design, the system delivers the performance of larger, heavier speakers. Drivers and passengers will hear musical detail throughout the frequency range, including the deep low notes required to reproduce lifelike audio.

The Bose Energy Efficient Series system comes standard on the 2011 Chevrolet Volt [and is an option on the 2012 as some folks didn't want it].

For more information visit Bose <--click me. Check out the two videos there with these graphics.
See videos at click me above. .

 

What happens with electric motors is they lose horsepower when they go faster. A single speed has better feel, as long as the motor has sufficient horsepower at that speed. Efficiency drops slightly, but it is nothing like an ICE. Tesla originally had a 2 speed because the motor did not have sufficient power at speed, they now have a better motor.

 

This is related to 1 of 4 modes of the Volt Electric High-Speed. The traction electric motor goes from ~6500 RPM to ~3250 RPM and the "generator electric motor" is now coupled in and running ~1500 RPM. Still all electric. They got better EV range using 2 electric motors at slower RPMs than 1 at a higher RPM.

a) Electric Low-Speed [in Charge-Depleting (CD) mode]: <snip>
b) Electric High-Speed [in Charge-Depleting (CD) mode]: The Volt typically hits this mode at about 70 mph. Then, the supervisory controller splits the power between the large traction motor and a smaller 54-kW generator-motor (which is still operated by the battery). The planetary gear set blends the power from the two motors and sends it to the drive axle. Even as it switches to this mode, however, the Volt still isn't employing its internal combustion engine - and therefore still isn't burning any gasoline.
c) Extended Range Low-Speed [in Charge-Sustaining (CS) mode]: <snip>
d) Extended Range High-Speed [in Charge-Sustaining (CS) mode]: <snip>

 

I am going to add some clarification, since reading this at face value is misleading. What should be said is that electric motors lose power at higher speeds. At zero RPM an electric motor produces zero power. As it goes faster it starts to produce more power, not less. As speed increases, so does power, up to the point where the loss of torque compensates for the increase in speed. After this point any additional speed results in less power.

In this respect the power curve for an electric motor is similar to that of an ICE. Obviously the torque/speed curve varies with the type of motor. Some electric motors have zero torque when not moving, but they wouldn't be very useful for an EV. The type of motor used in EVs usually develops full torque at zero RPM and falls off as speed increases. ICEs, on the other hand, normally develop full torque at higher speeds, but at speeds less than maximum.

Tom

 

The Volt's EV and hybrid mode CVT RPM-splitting behavior is described in posts #48 and #49 at CS mode: ~2200 RPM, ~1500 RPM, then "CD mode".

 

It unclear if you were responding to my post which was mainly about two motor electric High-Speed [in Charge-Depleting (CD) mode]. The numbers below are from the several GM engineering videos that describe each of the 4 modes.

 

2011 Chevrolet Volt Horsepower Graph Photo 43

I'm not trying to be confusing. Click on the power curve above. In all electric mode you can see over about 42 mpg the power drops. This is less of a drop because the volt uses a variable transmission with both motors at higher speed. Bellow 30mph the traction motor has a constant torque, so max hp increase linerarly with speed and rpm. On a tesla roadster the speed at which power drops is pushed out to a higher mph. Efficiency of the electric motor though is high at all these speeds unlike an ice.

 

It is a fallacy to assert that a given car "saves" gasoline because it burns less than some other, arbitrary car.

The relevant metric is NOT gallons saved. The relevant metric is gallons USED, with lower numbers being better, and the ideal number being zero.

If you are using your solar panels to produce your transportation energy, then you are using zero gallons of gas, which is ideal. But you are not "saving" gas.

Some folks will disagree with the above, but an analogy will clarify: Walmart sells some useless piece of plastic crap for $1 less than Target. Their ad tells you that you are "saving" $1 by buying this useless piece of plastic crap from them rather than buying it from Target. But since it is useless, you are not "saving" anything. You are SPENDING money, not saving it. Rather than saving $1, you are wasting the entire price of the item.

Every gallon of gas we use is wasted, because we could have designed our lifestyle and our transportation infrastructure and our energy production so as to not be dependent on gasoline.

The goal today is still to burn as little as you can, whether you drive a Volt, a Prius, an EV, or a velomobile. But the terms of the discussion should be gallons used, with a view toward minimizing that number, rather than gallons "saved," with a view toward maximizing this misleading and impossible-to-calculate number.

Yesterday I saved four thousand gallons of jet fuel by driving my EV to the grocery store rather than flying a private Lear jet to Chicago to buy my groceries there. See the problem?

 

I understand your position but I do respectfully disagree. In your hyperbole example with the jet, if you had been and would otherwise be flying to Chicago and now don't have to because of the purchase then you are saving the jet fuel. The problem is you never have so it is a useless comparison.

I have transportation needs, and I would be using some gasoline that I am now not. Its not some useless item I could do without.

For the past seven years I did the same commute I am now in a Gen I prius, burning about 1 gallon of gas a day. Now I do the same commute burning zero gallons a day. I believe it is fair to say that I am saving 1 gallon a day, which is important to me. It is no good to anyone else because everyone's usage is different and some will save more and some less, but for me it is a relevant metric.

 

ahhh Crap... i had read thru all the posts from the week as they came in on my phone, but that was only a few minutes here and there, between breaks, sitdowns in the bathroom, etc. now that i have time (and an internet connection!!) i started to read thru them, mark a half dozen posts for replies, but got tired of the reading them.

before i begin; i think the Volt is an awesome car. a Volt and Leaf would be perfect. Sure a Volt suffers in long distance driving, but i can over look it if its only 10-15 times a year which is how often it would be used. But we soon will have Quick Charge stations and that is the beginning of the end for the Volt market. i am afraid tthat a great car will be killed before it has a chance to flourish. from Blog response My Nissan Leaf Forum &bull; Chevy Volt

i see one of two things happening; the Volt will sell enough on the high end to allow the word of mouth to work ala the early Gen 2 Prius. remember if you will, from the day after the Super Bowl 2004 to late 2005, Toyota had no TV marketing campaign for the Prius. they simply could not meet the demand that was primarily created by word of mouth. A lot of people have a huge distrust of corporate advertising and that is magnified when they are told that if they want one, they must order from the catalog without a test drive. that is how i ordered my Prius. but i was lucky in that at the time a friend of mine who had been following Toyota waaay back, got one of the first 2004's and i had a chance to drive one.

but that is how game changing technology in the auto business has to work; word of mouth. its not a cellphone. people buy cellphones based on marketing hype, not cars. cars are much more personal. besides cellphones can be returned. simply pay restocking fee under $50 and pick another. cars dont work that way.

the other possible scenario; competition will quickly erode into the exclusive Volt market. i fear it be the latter. in my tiny corner of the world, i have been harping on EVs, efficiency, hybrids, recycled cash flow, etc for years. granted, i dont have the world reknown that Linda and Eric have (congrats on the Guinness Record!) but still have been a presenter at the Lacey WA Alternative Fuel Fair and Electric Car Rally for 6 of the past 7 (had wedding one year) years and plan to be there with my Leaf (for 2nd time) next May. In this role i have talked to hundreds of people, received their feedback, their hopes, their tentative future plans. what i hear is the Volt is nice, but just a bit too expensive. lets face it. the economy sucks and i have to estimate there is probably 5-15,000,000 less potential Volt customers out there due to the events of the past 3 years. Sure GM designed the car with sub prime mortgages, shaky single foundation stock portfolios and the integrity of Bernie Madoff in mind. but all that has changed and GM should have considered that and did not.

Other extended range vehicles will take a chunk of the Volt market as will EVs as their word of mouth spreads. Quick charge stations, better and bigger batt opts , etc all will nibble away at the foundation GM is hoping to build.

the other thing...Scott; i think you're not monitoring TCO on your Volt is a mistake. trust me on this; not having the data will create an immediate mistrust to anyone you talk to. even if you are not tracking the cost to the penny, you should at least provide some charts with your estimated electricity contributions. pat statements without facts is what people hear every single day on television

a thought; cents per mile for combination of electricity and gas paid for would be what i would be doing

 

It is no longer standard in 2012 Volt (now an option).

PiP and Prius v also have available premium JBL GreenEdge system that reduces power consumption by 50%, takes up less space and weight. The Amp is more than 90% efficient so it must be a Class D and cooling fan not needed.



The development of JBL GreenEdge technologies began several years ago when Lexus asked for Harman’s help in devising a sound system that could fit within the tight constraints of the LFA supercar’s interior. That challenge inspired Harman to create audio components that not only take up less space, but also consume less energy while cranking out higher volumes and more authentic sound.

“The goal was to produce twice the performance at half the energy,†says Robert Myers, senior manager of global brand and product marketing for Harman.



Source

 

I hate to throw more confusion into the mix but if your foot is on the floor, where it presumably was during a dyno test, the car stays in single motor operation. If you floor it while in two-motor operation, it changes to single. The gearing advantage puts more power to the wheels that way.

This has been documented by a poster on gm-volt.com. I don't know what tool he used but he recorded the data from flooring it at ~55mph. You can clearly see MG1 (the small one) slow to a stop. Read about it here.

From the driver's seat, it feels like a pause, as if the car is downshifting.

 

That is quite interesting and unexpected. There appears to be a spot on the graph I presented where the generator kicks in, but it should have been floored all the time. So going from 1 motor to 2 is fairly smooth but perceptible, but 2 to 1 has a pause. This is more of a reason to improve on the traction motor, but for a car of this class, reducing costs is probably a higher priority.

 

I find 1 -> 2 to be imperceptible. 2 to 1 is obvious (via a delay in full acceleration, there are no jerks or noises) when going from a low torque situation at highway speeds directly to full "throttle" but not perceptible otherwise.

 

You definitely made an improvement in your gas usage. I just feel that the term "saving" is widely misused. Maybe its semantic.

I was able to test-drive a 2004 Prius in November of 2003, after reading an on-line review from a car magazine. I think maybe they ended up selling that one and might not have had a demo for a while. But at the very beginning there were demos. I actually got to take the car from late Saturday to early Monday.

 

I was talking EV only, just using generator and traction motor instead of mg1 and mg2 or other designation. I didn't really notice either transition but graph of 1->2 looked perceptable. My butt accelerometer is a little messed up after driving the prius for a couple of years

 

Oh. Duh. Sorry, I see your point.

The generator (MG1) should never come into play during a dyno test. Some apparent effects in the curve may just be the smoothing algorithm applied to the raw data.