How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

Yeah I wasn't impressed with some of their assumptions, but clearly some assumptions had to be made or no significant analysis would be able to be completed on the millions of variable combinations.

But you can't deny that at least for the areas they did look at closely, grid power was "dirtier" than really high mileage HEV exhaust (but not conventional car exhaust).

 

For one, firing up an ICE for a short distance beyond the AER is really bad for GHG emissions due to the cold start.

Agreed.
For coal states, the grid power is dirtier. Are EV's anti-green then ?

 

I will concede before the first splatter hits the floor.

If I wasn't clear, I no longer work from home. I drive 25-35 miles/day.

I leased a Volt because I think it's cool.

 

Yes, both are improvements over the non-hybrids, like the one Tpfun is driving.

It is easy to see HEVs reduce the most GHG without the hassle of plugging in and they are the most cost effective.

Plugin hybrids are the next step but three obstacles are on the way, IMO.

1) Battery limitation (cost, weight, life, reliability, etc..) - The best bang for the buck for a plugin appears to be 5 kWh capacity that allows about 13 miles range.

2) Dirty electricity - The CO2 generated from the national average electricity only permit us to drive at city speed (below 200Wh/mile). Going faster and accelerating more aggressively will result in higher CO2.

3) Infrastructure - We only have slow charging capability. The upcoming "fast" chargers are still slow as it still takes hours.

 

I agree with your assessment of the obstacles,

I believe battery weight, cost, and size will decrease and energy density will increase as new models develop, supporting the present models encourages further development.

I believe as demand on the grid increases new production will be added that is cleaner, the study surmised as much. I also think more individuals will take energy independence more to heart and add more residential renewable energy production systems (solar, wind)

I agree with the need for infrastructure, I saw a huge improvement of my own satisfaction with the volt when I was able to charge away from home. I like to think that soon most shopping centers, restaurants, and parking garages may have some 240 v charging capability. You wouldn't be able to get a full charge at 240 v over the course of a dinner (PHV might if it supports 240v charging), but I could pick up a good 8-10 miles in that time, and if my next stop lets me grab a few more miles I could easily see a future where complete charging is rarely an issue because you're always just topping off.

 

Prius PHV recharges from empty to full in 1.5 hours with 240v. You hit the nail on the head with opportunity charges. It is why Toyota believes that the smaller battery is better. Prius PHV gets around those obstacles I mentioned before yet it can be mass produced for mass market to reduce massive gasoline consumption without massive spike in electricity consumption while keeping the emission at the same level.

 

ERCOT did a study at the end of 2010 and found the grid was getting greener much faster than eia projections. DOE did a follow up and found one reason was most projected coal plants get cancelled or postponed, so the greening projections are overly pessimistic. Also on the ERCOT report, ERCOT is one of the few grids actually replacing gas with coal and wind, the others are reducing coal. We do need to close down the dirtiest coal faster removing the grandfathering loophole would help. Since chicago was brought up, these two plants don't actually supply electricity to Chicago users, are owned by a California company, but greatly hurt health.

PERRO - Coal-Fired Power Plants in Chicago
Chicago coal plant ordinance has votes to pass « Midwest Energy News

Also on the message boards are NJ and California both attempting to add 20% of their grids as renewable. Most people can not simply add infrastructure but many deregulated states allow people to choose renewable energy.

The big cities in texas will have a 480V quick charging structure in the next 5 years, some regions will never get it. I have no idea if the volt can rapid charge, but the leaf and tesla can. btw: I saw 4 volts while driving today and 6 prii. I was surprised how quickly they have been hitting the road, but its probably only in the initial 7 cities.

 

When the Volt owner gets low on gas, the car will show the the closest 5 gas stations on 7" NAV screen.

When the Volt owner runs out of gas, the car will dip into the battery for a few (~4) miles to try to get you (silly driver) to a gas station. (Hey, my motorcycle has a reserve too that I've used a couple times but then again it does not have a fuel gauge just a trip.)

I used 0.0 gallons of gas this week tho so not really an issue typically for me. Cost this week was about $5 (~$0.70/day) in electricity so overall pretty decent. If I'm ever low on fuel I only put in $10. No reason to carry around extra weight.

 

Related to your post EV/PHEVs.

Aging coal-fired Indiana power plant to shut down, cutting Chicago-area air pollution - Chicago Tribune


Aging Indiana power plant to shut down, cutting Chicago-area air pollution
May 05, 2011|By Michael Hawthorne, Tribune reporter

Michael Tercha, Chicago Tribune
One of the nation's dirtiest power plants is shutting down, a move that will scrap a major source of lung- and heart-damaging air pollution in the Chicago area.
<snip>
During the last two years, utilities nationwide have opted to scrap more than 200 coal-fired units that date to the middle of the last century. The retirements reflect a fast-changing climate for electricity generation in the U.S. and promise cleaner air in the Midwest, Northeast and South.
<snip>
With the coal plant shutdowns already announced during the last two years, sulfur dioxide emissions nationwide will drop by 449,000 tons and nitrogen oxide emissions by 148,000 tons, according to federal records compiled by the Sierra Club. The plant retirements also will reduce heat-trapping carbon dioxide emissions by more than 93 million tons, equivalent to taking more than 16 million cars off the nation's highways.
<snip>

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Twitter @scribeguy

 

that is the way to do it. what is your cost per killowatt? or can you monitor that?

i am averaging 10.3 cents. i will post my bill, good luck trying to figure it out!! i just took total kwh used (850) and divided by bill total to get 10.268 cents.

i did try to take 2nd tier rates but that figured to just under 10.2 cents so i took the higher.




what does not appear is average daily usage as compared to last year which shows an 8 kwh increase (last year i was charging my Zenn) so not too bad.

 

I did the exact same thing. I made a little spreadsheet to track it that way and for the past couple years my "fixed" rate was 11.506 cents. For the past couple months with my hourly rate it is 9.369 cents. I have a TED 5000 but I have it hooked to my whole house.

I've used about 0.5 gallons of gas in the past 1000 miles.

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Some stats on just a few Volts out there.: http://crichton.sacknet.org/volt/
.

 

A benefit of the Prius Plug-In and Chevrolet Volt is that we don't have to deal with this:

Searching for a Range Anxiety Scapegoat [article about Leaf estimation being really bad - rumor is recent software fix is helping a lot]

I do certainly want the Nissan Leaf to succeed as a rising tide raises all boats. I just don't think it can get to the masses like the Prius impressively has done with their sales ( Toyota Prius - Wikipedia -- sales figures ). The Prius is *every* I look driven by young kids to old seniors.

 

I would agree. I think it is safe to say that if someone is seen driving a Leaf, he/she does have another car, or the Leaf is part of a two-car family. I don't think anyone would buy a Leaf right now as their only vehicle until there are quick chargers everywhere.

 

see below

 

One difference will still be the driving experience.

The volt has more torque and will not start the ICE under heavy acceleration. Zooming up to speed and sliding silently down the highway is one of my favorite things about the Volt.

 

I'll be curious to see it's long-term reliability and ease of maintenance.

 

They sold 125 Volts nationwide in July ... that's pretty good ...

 

Having the engine shut off when not needed has always been a major draw to Prius.

The plug raises the speed threshold from 46 to 62 and noticeably increases electric-only power. That is what will help sell it, not fulfilling an enthusiast desire for purity.

Remember, some of the consumers who previously decided against getting a Prius used the "dead weight" argument. That business reality influenced the decision to keep motor & battery size from being too big, which in turned helped to keep price lower. Other consumers were disappointed with short-trip efficiency, which the plug-in model dramatically improves.

The point is to replace traditional vehicle production with something that significantly reduces both emissions & consumption. That makes it essential to offer a balance of priorities. Driving in EV through the suburbs balances well with a steady cruise on the highway at 70 mph in HV.
.

 

This is a pretty narrow assumption. Many city dwellers own no car whatsoever, so owning only a leaf is plausible. Not everyone lives in the burbs where parking is plentiful and driving is a way of life. For many, renting when needed makes economic sense.

Tom

 

At very high speed, Volt's battery would be depleted in just 15 minutes. It may be a great bragging right but it is not very useful. Gas is superior for highway long distance driving due to superior energy density.