How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

This is the efficiency display after my very first full day commuting on a full charge. EV range was just under 30 miles that day, but it was also the coldest I have seen yet.

 

Re: electric consumption. It's pretty safe to use the 36 kWh/100mi EPA standard IMHO. I've seen from 30-35kWh/100mi based on my Kill-A-Watt. At 30 miles, I would think you did a little worse than 36.

 

I charge at home at 240v now (the picture is on the 110 v in the driveway before the garage charger was installed), and I use the 110v charger at work.

I've seen people mention a "kill a watt" meter before but I don't know what they are or how to use one.

Thats great savings on the travel costs, a 50 mpg prius would have used more than 60 gallons to go that far for around $240. If I use 12 kwh charging everyday my electric bill should go up about $39, but thats for 30 charges of 35 miles range each or about 1000 miles; so after 3 months and 3000 miles I should be about $117 more or less (worst case, I probably won't need a full charge every single day).

 

Thanks for posting the information. Summarized ..

Volt (35 AER, 40 MPG):
10.6 gallons petrol ($3.5/gallon) = $37.1
219.24 kwh at (10 - 15) cents/kwh = $22 - $33
Total $59 - $70 to travel 1060 miles. About 5 - 7 cents/mile

Compared to a Prius (50 mpg): 20.82 gallons of petrol, no electricity
$72.87, about 6.9 cents a mile.

Prius PHV (50 mpg, 14 mile AER): 243.6 EV* miles, 797.4 petrol miles
-- -- 16 gallons of petrol, 65 MPGe. Uncertain kwh use.
If we assume 300 wh/mile, then 73 kwh at (10 - 15) cents/kwh = $7.3 - $11,
16 gallons at $3.5/gallon = $56
Total $63.3 - $67, or 6.0 to 6.3 cents a mile.

* I assumed the Prius PHV travels 14 EV miles of every 35 Volt EV miles.

 

I'm sure; that was my lowest range day to date but the only one I photographed (because it was so new), and like I said it was very cold, morning temp was 34 degrees and at the end of the day there you can see it is in the 40s.

If we just use the 36 kwh/100 mi and my EV range to date of 609 miles, I suppose we can estimate I've consumed 219 kwh, which at 11 cents each would be $24.12 of electricity. Taking it farther that would buy about 6 gallons of $4 gas and 609 miles of 6 gallons is about 101.5 miles per gallon equivalent cost (I know the EPA 96mpge is based on energy not cost, but it looks like it works out pretty close).

 

By the way GWMort,
It sounds like you drive quite a bit more than the 12k miles a standard Volt lease allows. How does this work in your case ?

 

Pretty much, except that my local utility rate is 11 cents per kwh (actually slightly less 10.890467 cents) so instead of the range for my cost per mile you can get a hard figure of $24.12 or 5.7 cents per mile.

Note my Volt figures are actual real world data (to the extent available [kwh is an estimate]), the other figures are estimates based on expected results generally and not necessarily used under the same conditions I used the Volt.

Thats an excellent point.

First, we got the 15k mile lease (difference was 1% lower residual) so there is some extra room there.

Secondly, of the first 1000 miles, 210 was the trip home from the dealer and I've been driving around a bit more than normal to show friends and relatives the car, and giving test drives, etc..., I hope to settle down to 300 miles per week soon.

 

We have multiple drivers that reported 50 MPG in the Prius PHV and 14 miles of AER. Given that the Prius PHV is 25% more efficient than the Volt in petrol use it is a pretty solid bet that Prius EV use will be ~ equally more efficient. I used 20% because I am lazy.

 

That's not "very cold" in any respect. Lithium batteries don't take a big hit until sub-freezing temps, which many of us stay well below for weeks at a time. Heck, here in Minnesota, it's routine to go an entire month with highs in the 20's and morning commute temps close to or in single digits. It's routine to go several days in a row below zero too.

As for any type of generalized estimate, you cannot portray that. Real-World driving fluctuates wildly. Demands of work & home result in variation easily overlooked. I have collected 20 months of daily-driving data already to illustrate that. Here's the latest graph:



.

 

$400 difference ? That sounds really inexpensive if correct. How much was your down payment, return fees, and how much is your monthly payment ?

 

Looking back I'm not sure you factored in any petrol fuel consumption during the EV miles in the PHV. I believe the PHV will burn petroleum at a rate of 125 mpg while in the EV mode, so that would add about another two gallons to the calculation for the PHV.

Yeah it worked out to around 5 cents a mile doing it on the front end whereas they charge 18 cents per mile on the other end.

I'll have to pull out the paperwork at home if you want all the exact figures, but we put down about $5000 (including the value of my Prius trade-in) and got the $350 per month payment. A good chunk of the extra down payment over the advertised $2500 down were the taxes and govt fees.

 

^^ Nope.
While it is true that EV driving in a Prius PHV is sometimes all electric and most of the times blended electric/petrol, the petrol displacement is ~ 14 miles/charge.

Do you mean $5000 + Prius, or $5000 - Prius_valuation ?

.Without a doubt. That is why I say $45,000 before rebate. What was your state tax rate ?

 

I hear ya John, I meant comparatively, it was the coldest temp I experienced during my ownership of the car. Also I don't think the shorter range during cold temps is a function of lithium performance as much as it is not running the climate control system when things are comfortably in the 70s. I assure you I had the heater on "comfort" and the electric seats on that day (and yes I felt comfortably warm), without those loads my AER would have been longer, like it has been everyday since.

I don't mean to draw huge conclusions from my limited data, I am just trying to share the actual data I have for discussion instead of the theoretical values that have already been discussed. It was my impression people were curious how the real performance would compare to the predicted.

I got an app to collect my mileage and cost data every time I fill up so I hope to have as extensive a data set as you someday.

I understand, I didn't say they weren't fair estimates, but for instance my AER may have been effected by use of the cabin heater some days and some of your reports may have been from more temperate climes. I think your estimates are probably good to use for comparison purposes, but they are still predictions.

The value of the Prius was included in the $5000 ($2300 trade in, $2700 cash, more or less)

Something like 5%, Delaware is a little odd on taxes. I'll try to give you some better data tonight.

Theres a thread on the PHV page discussing a review of the PHV by some journalist:

http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-prius-phv-plug-in/91752-2012-toyota-prius-plug-in-numbers-would-work-you.html

The reporter used 1.13 gallons over 102.9 miles, with 77.7 EV miles (charged like 7 times) and 25.2 non-EV miles.

It is possible I suppose he only burned petrol for the 25.2 miles, but then the gas only mileage would be 22.3 mpg.

I propose that it is more likely that he got 50 mpg for those 25.2 miles (about 1/2 gallon) and used the other .63 gallons during the "EV" miles, which works out to fuel consumption of around 123 mpg during the EV driving. I don't think it just timeshifts when you get the EV miles as you suggest. Either way its hard to argue when the final configuration has not been set by Toyota (I understand the test mules had NiMh and lithium batteries but the production models may not resulting in changes in power and weight etc... from the preproduction models).

 

While I love the Plug in Prius and think its great for short commutes... I think that my travelling needs mean that the Volt is a better match for me. I have read about costs of purchase... and I seem to remember the same comment made about 1st Gen Prius owners years ago. If you adjust the price of a 2001 Prius and add on the cost of Safety Features that the G3 Prius has, then the G1 Prius costs well north of $40,000, and makes the G3 Prius look positively Yaris like in price. Think about it, the G3 has more safety, more airbags, Star Safety System, Bluetooth and much much more that was not available on the G1, and yet people bought into it. So the price of the Volt is not really much of a concern to me.

The Volt is the same idea. It is the first of its kind, and naturally the cost will be much higher than even the Plug-in Prius which uses amortized and recycled current Toyota tech. I mean, if you read "The Prius that Shook the World", then you will find that Toyota was already working on a plug in solution for THS even at that time. So really, HSD + Plug-In has taken its sweet time coming out too, and it seems like a lack of innovation and copies many of the aftermarket options that are available out there for G1, G2 and G3 Prius'. The only benefit is you get warranty coverage from Toyota. Let's be realistic here. I mean think about it, buy a used G3, save about $10,000 from not buying new, then get an aftermarket plug in kit, with superior range to Toyota's, and you come out way ahead, in cost, range and operation.

Now my disappointment with GM is that the Volt uses Premium fuel. Will that prevent me from buying the Volt to replace my Prius or Neon when it comes out in Canada, absolutely not. Would I consider a Plug-In Prius, probably not. I have compared the two thoroughly, and the thought of losing the uncomfortable middle seat in the Prius does not bother me one bit. The Volt also has superior head room in the rear, and given the range on Electric, it will do excellently and meet my travelling needs better than the Prius Plug In. Also the seats in the Volt are made for human beings to sit in. The Prius G1 and G2 seats are inhuman torture seats, while the G3 is at least moderately more comfortable. But after being struck by a drunk driver from behind and pushed into a busy intersection, my back says Volt seating is much more comfortable, especially after sitting in it for hours.

One thing I find quite depressing on this site, is how a few owners lose sight of why we bought the Prius in the first place. I like to think that most of us purchased our cars because we wanted to make a commitment to the environment. At least that is why I bought mine. The Chevrolet Volt should be applauded for the amazing contribution it makes to reducing our carbon footprint. As I am so proud of owning a first gen Prius, and am proud of all of you who have done the same thing buying into the Prius concept. We should welcome the Volt into our Prius community and not see it as Prius Vs. Volt competition. The Prius Plug in is quite awesome in its own right, but this constant bickering of mine is bigger than yours is silly. Competition in the marketplace is a good thing, and makes even better cars than the Volt or Prius come out even sooner.

Anyway, that is just my neutral thoughts here. I find the discussions about range of the Volt and Plug In Prius quite fascinating and hope the Volt owners will continue to give us updates and not be insulted by the few that prefer to be lovers of the car, rather than lovers of the environment.

PS. Who the heck cares that the Volt Regenerator kicks on when you pop the hood. Seriously, how many of us pop the hood of the car with the garage door closed? Not really a concern.

 

That is some creative thinking but it doesn't apply to the real world at all. The cost of the Gen I was under $25k no matter how you try to analyze it. Your bank account doesn't care about fantasy upgrades to safety items or comparisons. Then end result is you will still spend nearly $40k for a Volt.

 

I would applaud if it were true.

 

Well said mlibanio,

One thing though, as a former prius owner and current volt owner, I believe it is a mis-statement to say the Volt has more headroom in the rear. I believe the Volt has more passenger space in the front , but the Prius does in the rear. Its not a big factor for us as I rarely have adults in the backseat, but it is what it is.

 

mlibanio, have you considered CT200h? The size should be comparable with the Volt plus the ride, comfort and interior should be superior.

 

Your logic is ... lacking. You cannot assign a value to technology in 2003 that did not exist in 2003. lol

Petrol consumption and break-even points on a graph for those interested.

 

To me the point is the prius Gen I was really a $10K car, that saved gas but cost $20K. The volt is really a $25K car that saves gas and costs $35K. For that extra money you also get some neat new technology.

Is it worth it? It all depends on how much you want that technology and gas savings. Most people didn't take a second look at the prius other than to ridicule how expensive it was. For one poster it was worth it to be an adopter of both the prius and the volt.