How will the Chevrolet Volt be better than a Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid?

The video at http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-...-hot-desert-ricks-turn-phv-5.html#post1169606 shows some acceleration testing.

 

Yes, that is one of the videos that I watched. 0-60 in 30 seconds, why do people think removing the ev button is a good idea? Do you typically watch the hsi for 30 seconds while accelerating? Do you think the car knows better and ev range shouldn't be saved.

Toyota seems to have gotten the message and is adding an ev button.


The Plug-in Prius

 

It will be exciting to see what the final production PHV will have.

 

I thought remote start was for heating up the engine. Yeah, heat form the engine is used to heat the cabin, but diverting heat from the engine during the warm up period extends it. Which means more fuel burned and more emissions, because it's taking longer for the engine to reach operating temperature. I think using remote start for cabin heating is a waste of gas. But I'm an oddball who only uses it a moment before getting in and driving off to let the oil heat a little above freezing.

 

It is not a remote start. It is the preconditioning feature. It supposed to heat up the cabin by drawing energy from the plug. The whole point of it was to avoid running the gas engine or use the battery to condition the cabin.

Cordless Prius with solar panel does preconditioning with a fan powered by the sun. It can also draw power from the HV battery to run the AC with the remote AC button. It does not start the gas engine.

Volt's preconditioning feature starts the gas engine even when it is plugged in. Obviously, the feature is broken since it is not working as intended to.

 

EV button, as we know it, disables when HSI or speed exceeds a certain value. It has to do with safety, bottomline. If the MG1+MG2 // HV BATT cannot simply cope with the service input from the driver, ICE kicks in.
It's the same with the PHV, but the limits are much higher. Simple, having it should be a feature, not a gadget.

I would instead ask for a HV button, to lower limits for ICE kicking in and preserve grid charge to a near/ahead use. But there again, not mandatory or of much use, therefore, skip it.

 

If you read the amended post toyota is now saying the phv will have an EV button that does what you want. I assume it also means that they have listened to the rest of the argument and will have a very non-linear pedal in eco ev mode that locks you in unless you actually floor the car. There is not a safety problem, only a logic problem that toyota seems to have gotten over. Hopefully they will also redesign the battery/electronics to allow for burst of 60kw providing for higher levels of ev acceleration.

 

I always watch the HSI on the HUD, the PHV should really get the HUD in all markets. I watch it to ensure i stay in the lower electric half as much as possible, to get the most from my phev kit. Being able to fill the main section of the HSI would be GREAT!

 

According to the Volt manual, it is a remote start, and it turns out my use of remote start doesn't seem to be what the vast majority use it for.

The manual also states that the engine may come on to provide heat even while in EV mode with enough juice in the battery. I wouldn't call this broken. Better burning of gas that needs to eventually be turned over, than sucking the miles out of the battery when the energy effeciency per mile drops below CS mode.

Assuming it is set at the best switch over point, but EV will have greatly diminished range or expose your children to frostbite.

Oh, GM installed remote starts have 10 min limit before shutting off and needing to be restarted. Unlike aftermarket ones which can let you burn gas for hours without even seeing the car.

 

Then Volt is a hybrid then. EV would take the hit and use and only use the battery. Leaf provides heat from the battery it is equipped with the battery pack than works well in very cold temp.

Volt is marketed as an EREV, not a hybrid. Therefore, using the gas engine other than extending the range means it is broken. The purpose of EREV is to not use gas at all cost until you need more range. The battery supposed to take all the beating including the dead weight of gas powertrain.

Even a cordless Prius can precondition using the HV battery without starting the gas engine. Why can't Volt do it even with the juice flowing from the plug?

 

Can't be broken. Never worked as advertised in the first place.

EREV is just marketing spin. It was coined back when the "no gas" promotion first started, an attempt to distance the design from other hybrids. Since then, we've discovered many circumstances when the engine is for something other than extending range.

Turns out, the system charges the battery-pack while driving... something the enthusiasts fiercely claimed it would never do... because that would be yet another thing to support it being a plug-in hybrid rather than a full electric.

The latest revelation came from an owner observing it firsthand with a ScanGauge. He noted that once the pack was depleted, the engine would run for roughly 2 minutes at about 2200 RPM then another 4 minutes or so at around 1500 RPM... followed by a switch back to driving with the engine off for a minute. Then the cycle would repeat again.
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Examples?

 

Leaf will be available in cold weather states with "cold weather package". It will not be a gas engine for sure.

For the initial launched states, the electric heater is reported to be more powerful than the Volt's.

No wonder even a die-hard EREV supporter started to call Volt as a hybrid. That gas engine cycling strategy sounds primitive. There is no variable blending like Prius PHV.

 

That sounds like CS mode as expected.

But yeah, the entire EREV is not a plug-in hybrid spin-o-rama was pathetic.

 

That does sound rather odd, but I hear the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid does something similar.

It could be a virtual form of P&G to help increase MPG.

 

That's exactly what it is. Prius doesn't really need to do it much since the efficient BSFC area covers so much of the power output area. The volt 1.4 probably has a very narrow efficienct BSFC power area, so must run in that range. it needs to employ every trick it can to get its 37mpg.

Not sure on what type of engine the hyundai is using, but i assume it's also a lightly modified production otto engine, so it too would have a narrow band.

 

Well yes, that was the original idea of calling the ICE a "generator" rather than an ICE. People hoped the system would have end fuel economy greater than an Atkinson ICE because it would theoretically always operate at its best efficiency output. The problem really is that conversion losses incurred through the trip towards and back from the battery are ~ 20%. Of course when you make the car heavier and start with a crappy ICE as in the Volt the end result is not pretty.

But if the two cars are the same weight and a smart choice of ICE is made for the generator I suspect the ICE-wheels is ballpark the same as Atkinsion ICE - wheels energy efficiency.

Years ago UC Irvine hybrid guru, when asked whether he though HSD or Serial Hybrid was a superior architecture answered about the same, but said the specific implementation details will determine the winner. How prescient!

It is easy to see with regular ICE cars. For the most part they all work the same, but a large range in fuel economy is seen even in cars of similar shape and weight. The devil is in the details, and Toyota is the master of details.

 

Sonata Hybrid has a step gear automatic transmission so the strategy makes more sense.

Volt has the same planetary gearset like the Prius. I think GM is forced to move away from eCVT variable blending to avoid patent lawsuit. That would be my guess.

 

The HSD software/hardware electronics are not easy to replicate. Between patents and expertise, GM may have been forced to adopt a pseudo-serial design. The rest, as they say, is spin.

 

ok some assumptions; 30 mile range in winter, 50 in summer. now using my personal history, how many times i would have burned gas if i had a Volt and not a Leaf

days owned; 51.
days in winter using climate control; 51
days over 30 miles; 24

ok, let take another tact... lets pretend its summer. now before we do this, keep in mind, that we do increase our driving about 20-30% on a monthly basis in summer, so the mileage here really does not apply. so this is ONLY done to keep the "Volters" from screaming about inequities, so lets pretend.

in the same 51 days; 16 days we exceeded 50 miles. so best case scenario, in just general driving, the Volt only covers 65% of ONE CAR'S needs.

the other half of the requirement is a 60 mile RT commute, which the Volt does not cover. so the Volt can only cover us "gaslessly" about 32.5% of the time

parting note; the reason we drive more in summer than winter is simple. in winter, i go to work, its dark. i come home its dark. in summer i go to work, the sun is rising. i come home and still have 4 hours of daylight left.

on the driving stats, # of days that i drive between 18.1 to 19 miles (my straight RT commute is 18.1 miles); 19