How many charges is the Prius Plug In good for?

Hybrid-related components including the … battery control module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter. Yeah, seems like it.
From my warranty booklet, CARB states are AZ, CA, CT, ME, MD, MA, NJ, NY, OR, RI, and VT. PA & WA have some rather bizarre combination of CA and Federal emissions warranties.
Here's what it says concerning the battery. Under "New Vehicle Limited Warranty", which includes 96 months/100k miles on the Federal level:

«Lithium-ion battery capacity (the ability to hold a charge) gradually reduces with time and use. This is a natural characteristic of lithium-ion batteries. The extent at which capacity is reduced changes drastically depending on the environment (ambient temperature, etc.) and usage conditions such as how the vehicle is driven and how the lithium-ion battery is charged. Reduction of lithium-ion battery capacity is NOT covered under warranty. In order to lessen the possibility of capacity reduction, follow the directions listed in the Owner's Manual under "Capacity Reduction of the Hybrid Battery (Traction Battery)."»​

Now here's the CA Emissions control warranty:

«For 15 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first:​

• • If your vehicle fails a smog-check test, all necessary repairs and adjustments will be made by Toyota to ensure that your vehicle passes the test. This is your Emissions Control System PERFORMANCE WARRANTY.
  • Subject to the specific terms pertaining to maintenance described on the following pages, if any emissions-related part is defective, the part will be repaired or replaced by Toyota. This is your Emission Control System DEFECT WARRANTY.

Parts list​

• • Engine control computer (engine control module)
  • Throttle body
  • Intake manifold and intake air surge tank
  • Exhaust front pipe (including catalytic converter)
  • Exhaust manifold
  • EGR valve
  • Charcoal canister
  • Fuel tank
  • Battery control computer (battery voltage sensor)
  • Electric vehicle charger
  • HV battery junction block (including electric vehicle relay)
  • Hybrid battery (10 years or 150,000 miles, whichever occurs first)
  • Hybrid control module (power management control module)
  • Inverter with converter
  • Plug-in charge control computer
  • Transaxle (including motor and generator)»

The PERFORMANCE WARRANTY is pretty hilarious because in CA, hybrids are exempt from smog checks. It's debatable whether, if the capacity of the traction pretty reduces significantly, you can claim that it has a "defect". After all, the wording in the warranty book says capacity gradually decreases with time and use. But what's gradual? Is losing 1 mile of range per year considered "gradual"? What about 2 miles? 5?

 

its a lithium based battery pack right?
only
normally around 1500 full charge cycles before they start to drop in cap.

so lets say every day a full discharge and charge again and in 4 years you still have ~ 90% cap left..

it seems that after that the drop is less significant

i geussing in 8 years time its would be like 70% or so. so no 16miles but around 11 miles after 8 years where you do a year in year out day to day full discharge and charge cycle.

and in real life you do less.. weekends standing still? shorter drives? and so on.

so i expect better then above example in 90% of drivers situations.

 

I would think in real life, most folks will cycle the battery more than once per day on a PiP, considering the use of ReGen and the limited EV range.

 

How big part of the soc is used with the pip anyway?

-Tapatalk

 

Some users have posted their track logs. On one log, EV mode starts full charge at 85% soc and HV begins around 23.2% soc, and the battery never goes below about 21.18% soc

 

one would assume toyota did this kind of long term testing, and it won't be an issue. i hope. i'm assuming my 20% loss over the last 5-6 weeks is temp related, although, it dropped a lot morein 50-60 degree temps than in 30-40 degree temps.

 

What qualifies as a full cycle?

Roughly 37% of the capacity is still available when the EV portion is depleted, which typically isn't thought of as "empty" for a rechargable battery.

 

Reading one post above it seems toyota is using the same idear as with the Normal prius.
So i am geussing it wil even last longer then that.
Full cycle? Mm 100 down to 10% or so? And back up.

-Tapatalk

 

I though PiP minim SOC for EV was 23% and uses 23%-21% as its HV buffer.

A 20-25% minimum SOC is what is considered "empty" for a Li-Ion batteries in cars.
No one is suggesting/using cycles below that level. Cannot use models for simple small laptop-batteries as life is also a function of the "C" rating of used power and cars use much higher current than small eletronics.


The modeling by NREL I posted earlier, suggests it will ahve 80% of its orginal range capacity after about 782cycles/8 years. Since both time and cycles are factors its a bit hard to separate them. The did not provide any other breakouts.

 

85% is indeed "full charge" for the traction battery. HV mode starts at 23.1%, and shows 7 individual battery bars. The lowest I've had it was 18% with just 2 individual battery bars showing. I have not been able to get below 2 bars, so I don't know the absolute bottom, but we can make some educated guesses.

 

Is 18% really 18% soc battery or 18% of the used cap soc?


-Tapatalk

 

i would think Toyota selected the 4.4kwh battery ~11mi EV expecting many owners would chg at home and while out (work, shopping...), testing the battery accordingly. i'd be disappointed in Toyota engineering if the Li battery degrades more than ~20% in less than 8 yrs (8*365*2=5840 cycles).

will be very interesting to compare how batteries are holding up in a few years on the Leaf, volt, PiP, teslas in use today

 

those numbers are probably from OBDII readings which are raw SOC. 18% is lower than I thought I had read but its possible that at very low speeds/power draw it will let one dip a bit deeper before firing up the ICE.

 

Or it may be a degraded battery that is having to dip lower to deliver the promised kWh?

I'm not real sure how we are supposed to recognize when the battery is using more of the SOC range to compensate for lower cell performance.

 

From what I read here (from some Leaf guys?), the Nissan engineer(s) said the a battery's SoC can only be accurately determined at the time the car is started or turned on. Everything after that is some kind of estimate the car's ECU is providing. At least that's how I understood it, but I readily admit I may be wrong.

However, I believe I have seen 18% SoC with 2 bars (like what devprius said). That was at the end of my 30-35 minute commute home. But who knows how accurate that is. If I pulled over, turned the car off and back on, maybe it'd read 20%? I do not know..

 

These are indeed the raw SOC numbers via a ScanGauge II plugged into the OBDII port.

When the car is in normal HV mode, it is still possible to still run in EV mode in certain low speed conditions. Remember that the Gen III has a limited EV mode available to it. The PiP also has this mode available to it. So even though I have dropped into HV mode, I have 6 or 7 battery bars visible, and I can run in EV mode and draw the battery down to that 18% level so long as I don't push things. As soon as I hit 18%, the ICE fires up no matter how fast I am going, and stays on until I hit 4 battery bars again (I don't remember the SOC when it hits 4 bars again). At the point I hit 18%, I was only going about 20 miles per hour. If I pushed it any faster, the ICE came on.

 

There's no promised kWh that the system has to provide. It just has supply a certain amount of power, whether it comes from the ICE, the battery, or a combination of the two. The system can't use more than the allowed SOC battery range.

One way to detect if the battery is becoming degraded would be to monitor how quickly the SOC goes down under load. If it drops too quickly, then you've got a bad battery.

 

Not sure if this has been discussed as I don't follow PiP threads much, but it just occurred to me that another reason why Toyota might've gone w/such a small battery size/short AER range is that the chances of someone driving and partly depleting or draining the li-ion battery (to the level that the car allows) is very high. So, it helps reduce the amount of time the car might sit in high temperatures w/high SoC, which is bad for the battery.

Leaf has no battery thermal management at all, not even a fan.

I'm not sure if the PiP will use any power by itself to run the AC to keep the battery temp down while parked. Can anyone w/a PiP chime in? Will it run the battery fans when not in READY mode? If there's no AC and it's just battery fans when off, then the battery temp can't get below ambient or cabin temps...