How are "monster trucks" street legal?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tnthub @ May 30 2007, 09:53 AM) [snapback]452038[/snapback]</div>

I firmly agree with the continued education; I think continued driver education should focus on skid recovery, low-traction driving conditions (e.g. snow, ice, etc...), and so forth. And (I like the idea, but the application thereof could become painful for us all) requiring advanced driver training prior to renewing your driver's license should also be a requirement.

As for the emergency vehicles outfitted for all-weather/-terrain driving, I see nothing wrong with operating those on surface streets, provided that the drivers are properly trained to drive them (there's that continued education thing again).

And also, something else to consider: if they maintain a requirement to attend an advanced driver training course prior to license renewal, I think there would be a decrease in elderly drivers that have difficulty operating a vehicle. I am not opposed to the elderly driving; I have grandparents approaching the age of 80 that know how to drive a vehicle quite well. My 70+ year old grandfather has no trouble pulling a trailer behind a truck and safely driving it in traffic.

Other measures that should be required (here we go again with the legislation) would be to require anyone purchasing a high performance vehicle to attend a race car driving course (the Skip Barber course comes to mind) so they know how to handle the vehicle in any given situation.

Just my dollar and 2 cents.

 

:angry: Down here in this part of Florida (near Tampa / Lakeland) these "monster, jacked-up trucks" are ALL OVER the area with "the rules" being broken everywhere.............. many are jacked up way above 36" bumper height, a lot higher :angry: The tires are gigantic and seems there are NEVER ANY MUDFLAPS, so when these on-roaders "occasionally" go OFF-road and get covered in mud, rocks and gravel, they just go up onto the Interstate and let the debris fly off............ duhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!

Around town, my Wife and I are astonished that anything like these are actually "Street Legal", and I don't exaggerate when I say their rear bumper is HIGHER than the roof of a Honda Civic....... seriously !! It amazes us that even with the "ladder steps" below the door, that anyone can even get into these "monsters" without actually "jumping up while pulling youself in by the exterior grab handles" !!

The latest "fad" 'round here are DIESEL F-350's with TANDEM rear axles, all jacked up........ I usually travel with my digital camera so the next time (and it certainly won't be a long wait) I pull aside one, I'll snap a photo. The funniest thing (actually sad) is that most of these vehicles cannot make it through bank drive-up windows or any fast-food drive-up and as far as going into the city and trying to park in a parking garage with minimal roof height (as MOST parking garages have)..... forget it !!

It was "scary" enough pulling aside one of these "jacked-up-monsters" in our Honda CR-V.......... now in the even "lower" and "smaller" '07 Prius, it's downright frightening..............
And the State of Florida, at least OUR COUNTY, thinks this is ALL OKAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Florida has no state inspection program. If you can get something started you can drive it on the street.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tnthub @ May 30 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]452153[/snapback]</div>

...... yep, tell me about it............ like 50% of the pick-up trucks down here (Florida) have their TAILGATES REMOVED !!

NOW....... NOT to get "off-topic", but............... I see your "bio / credentials" as well as reading many of your forum post replies, so I am sure you will appreciate this........ even though you are from Maine, you must know Connecticut has a Vehicle EMISSIONS Program, like many other New England States. Well my Wife and I were back in Connecticut for about a year (2004) and that is when Connecticut, once again, re-instated the Emissions Program. Well guess what I did, what I was............... I went to classes (in Wethersfield, CT) and became a State of Connecticut CERTIFIED EMISSIONS TESTER !! Yep, worked at an official testing station and put them vehicles through all the NOX, CO, etc. tests and up on rolling dyno-type (had to bring driving wheels up to 35 MPH and hold it there for 3 mins.) with sensor-probe in tail pipe, reading the noxious gasses emitted and connected to a computer and linked to a gigantic database throughout Connecticut. They also had three video cameras up on ceiling, one in front of vehicle, one in rear and one on "tester" (ME) to "see" if one was "cheating" the test, etc. When we got an "off-road" or any 4-Wheel Drive vehicle that could NOT go on the "dyno", we first did an "idle" test and then a 3,500 RPM (at 3 minutes) test !! Some of the vehicles I "tested", and remember I did this 5 days a week for over 8 months, were "spectacular" like classic Mercedes, Beamers, some really exotics...... and then there were the "jacked-up-large-tire-pick-ups" (NOTHING quite like here in Florida now) covered in mud that I had to use a milk crate to get up, into !! Man, thes old carb'ed oil burners would fail-fail-fail...... RED STICKER !! And the owners would swear and threaten me........ hey, I was just the "messenger" in a matter of speaking........... wasn't my fault you disconnected the "cats" and richened up the carb...............

 

I think this has nothing to do with driver education.

I don't think that performance driving skills and the safe on-road operation of monster trucks have anything to do with each other.

It's a state-of-mind issue, and one which also touches upon our fallibility as drivers.

The roads are shared; the fact of the matter is that one's freedom to espress oneself by creating and operating these vehicles is distinctly secondary to the maintenance and preservation of our collective safety.

Just as there's a diminished expectation of privacy when you're sitting in your car doing whatever (vs. your home), to too are there other shared concerns on public roads, which transcend the implementation of one's individual freedoms.

Operate these on your own property if you wish, however you wish...but don't expose me to the dangers of sharing the road with one.

I don't really care if someone is a "good driver" or not...'cause no one is a *perfect* driver.

And what if this "good driver" gets upset with me and my Prius?

Seriously, it's difficult enough to convince folks to not *talk on the phone* while they're driving. Creating a nation of respectful, attentive, and competent drivers seems a bit optimistic to me. And making it so these qualities are reliably present in everyone on the road, on a daily basis...including the folks who may tend towards more aggressive vehicles as an expression of themselves...that's a fantasy.

But that's just my opinion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ozyran @ May 23 2007, 10:25 PM) [snapback]448714[/snapback]</div>

I think you've gone off the other end of the argument. It's not about needs, it's about our freedom and desires vs the safety of others. No one want to be at undue risk due to the freedoms taken by others, and no one wants to drive the same car, either. That's why these things are legislated at the state level. Just lobby your state government and get the laws tightened. In many countries, you cannot use the after-market heavy-duty steel bumpers unless they've gone through an approval process. Something similar could work here.

 

an interesting website:
http://xo.typepad.com/blog/cars/

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Les Gas @ May 30 2007, 01:10 PM) [snapback]452189[/snapback]</div>

You know, if us all driving the "same car" would make it so my parents could be resurrected from the auto accident which claimed both of their lives when I was still very young...wouldn't you at least consider making that sacrifice?

Wouldn't you?

?????

Or are your individual "freedoms" and "desires" somehow more important?

Seriously, this is beginning to touch a nerve.

Lose someone you love in a car accident and you'll change your tune about how all of this "but I'm an individual and I need to express myself by customizing my vehicle" drivel.

It's simply impossible to take this thread seriously.

We share the roads and it's our obligation as individuals to contribute to a safe environment as much as we can. And if this infringes on our civil "liberties," then so be it.

I'm not going to go into the details here; suffice to say that there was a bit of this element involved in the accident. It's ludicrous how y'all see safety as this abstract, relative thing, independent of the design and configuration of the vehicle...that somehow rests primarily in the hands of the driver.

Wrong.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Y'all are wrong. Period. And I'm willing to argue this until we're all sick and tired of typing. Is the best y'all can do, "but I want to do this to my vehicle" and "well, monster trucks don't handle that bad, really..." and "if the driver's good, (s)he can compensate for the inherent deficiencies of the vehicle"...?

Besides, as I already said, these vehicles *do* already tend to break laws, but they're generally not enforced by the Police.

Once again, it's about common sense and the common good, vs. "one's right as an individual to to what one desires." Why can't the "but I'm an individual" folks ever relent on issues like this? Y'all are babies..."I want what I want, when I want it, and as much of it as I want" and then cloak it this ersatz patriotic idealism.

Do you have no personal limits? No concern for anyone but yourselves?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 30 2007, 02:27 PM) [snapback]452198[/snapback]</div>

If somehow Freedom of Speech killed your parents, it wouldn't make your arguement to cut the 1A out of the Consitution any more valid.

The same emotionally driven arguements allow tyranny to exist.

Fear of terrorism drives many people to allow civil liberties to be cut, in the name of about 3000 people. Are your civil liberties worth more than those 3000 people? Your arguement says that those 3000 people are more important than your civil liberities. Except, you don't know those people, so they hold less value.

How about this? Let's ban bicycles from the roads. They offer little to no protection, and they rarely follow any sort of road laws. Consistently, bicycle deaths on the roads number about 700 each year, with a full 1/4 of those occuring with children. 1 out of every 20 bicycle riders have a crash each year.

However, about 900 children between the ages of 1 and 14 drown each year.

Even more frightening, doctors accidently kill about 120,000 people per year. That means 1 out of every 5 doctors have accidently killed someone due to medical negligence.

How many people die because of these "huge illegal trucks"? My guess would be that it is so statistically insignificant, that there isn't even stats on it.

 

It is possible with today's technology to have vehicles that comply with emmission requirements and have individuality and performance. I have the emmisions controls hooked up on all my cars as they need to produce as little pollution as possible for all of us.

As far as having everyone driving the same vehicles to comply with safety requirements, as painful as accidents are, I am against it.

Without innovation, experimentation, and some tough lessons learned we will not improve our transportation systems. Life is full of imperfections and I too have lost people extremely close to me through automobile tragedies as have many of us. We take our lives in our hands every time we do about anything.

I am not ready to dimish the freedom of innovation and self expression that helps make America great by making it a criminal offense to modify a vehicle. My Dad fought in WW2 and Korea so that we could have a free country. I may not like war and had I been drafted during Vietnam I would probably be a Canadian resident, but the people who fought to preserve the integrity of our country I think are worth listening to, whether I agree with them or not.

The freedom to paint my house whatever color I want, crank the tunes, and have a flowerbed is why I do not live in a housing community. The ability to drive the type of vehicle I want is important to me and I believe it is my responsibility as a human being to not tailgate, drive the speed limit, and obey all traffic laws. It is also my responsibility to drive a vehicle that is safe, regardless of the law.

My wife will not ride in my Camaro as she doesn't like the 5-point safety harness. It is safer than the cheesy seatbelts and airbags that came with it. It took six months of red tape to gain written permission from the Feds to remove the airbags (I have a six point welded roll bar). I do not drive this vehicle in the winter as in my opinion, it is not safe to drive on slippery roads, regardless of the fact the state will allow me to drive it.

I am a pretty strong believer in taking some personal responsibility in what I do and I do not think we need to go further into the "nanny state of mind" to achieve a better safety record on our public roads. Perhaps just an insurance incentive (discount) for people who take ongoing driver education training might grease the wheels a bit? I am not so naive as to think that all of us will change and suddenly become more responsible drivers but if we can get most of us on board with such a program it would be a good starting point and in my opinion could result in far more lives saved than by banning a very small segment of the vehicles in use on public roads.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 30 2007, 01:27 PM) [snapback]452198[/snapback]</div>

So, I build and drive a NerfCarâ„¢, and then I demand you crush your Prius? After all, you should out of the goodness of your heart so that future dead people don't die. Are you crazy? Did you even read my post? I've been stunned lately at the number of people on this forum that take rigid extreme views and completely destroy any hope of a sane discussion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Les Gas @ May 30 2007, 03:19 PM) [snapback]452282[/snapback]</div>

As long as your NerfCar and my Prius are both stock and were approved for sale in the US, then we're cool.

If you add huge tires and suspension and jack up your NerfCar so its giant solid axles and wheels and tires will override my bumper in an accident, then we've got issues.

This about stock vs. modified cars. Do you understand?

Also, you didn't answer my question, and instead threw this back at me, like I'm some sort of villian or troll...then lumped me in with "all the other people" who take extreme views...like wanting my folks to have not been killed is extreme.

You're really insensitive.

To top it off, now you're contending the death of my parents isn't any big deal, and that the guy who was driving an illegally modified (yes, it was found to be in violation of the law, in a way which had a direct effect on the outcome of the accident) vehicle wasn't at all to blame, over and above anyone else who bought a stock version of that vehicle?

You need to read what *I've* written again. A few times. And think about what you're suggesting. And maybe step outside of what you believe to see things from another point of view.

BTW, I don't think that ANYONE has EVER said about ME that I seek to "seek to destroy any hope of a sane discussion..."

I'd suggest that *your* reply is the real culprit.

 

This is the kind of stuff I see everyday around my area of Florida's city and rural streets, although I did not take this picture, I just found it on the internet...........

http://media.portland.indymedia.org/images...3/03/254769.jpg

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Les Gas @ May 30 2007, 03:19 PM) [snapback]452282[/snapback]</div>

You know, the decent thing to have done would have been to write something like, "I'm sorry," or, "gosh, I didn't realize" or *something* of that nature...before launching into your rebuttal.

That's all I was hoping for.

But, instead, you suggested that I'm crazy, asserted that I'm rigid and extreme in my views, and that I am also intent on completely destroying any hope of a sane discussion.

How very thoughtful of you.
:-(

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 30 2007, 07:06 PM) [snapback]452407[/snapback]</div>

The thought of bringing the memory of dead parents into a discussion on a public forum makes me cringe a little, but I don't think I said anything directly about them. I am sorry if you took offense. You should understand that personalizing an argument like you did is like throwing water on the fire of discussion. Right away, anyone that wants to have a civil debate with your point of view is going to look insensitive. It's your right to post it, but I don't think that's a very fair way to make your point(s).

That aside, I still do not think you went back to read my original post with which you took issue. If you reread it, you'll see that I concluded that the state lawmakers are the conduit for change. If you want to change the law, there's how you do it. If I don't like the laws, I go through the same process. I don't see how we disagree here. I think you might have read how I edited the other person's post ("need, need, need") and responded off the cuff without taking a minute to see what I was actually saying.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FloridaWen @ May 30 2007, 04:38 PM) [snapback]452339[/snapback]</div>

That is horrible. I'd like to know how that guy intends to use his winch without a ladder.

Something that I think might be of clarity to this issue is to distinguish between the dedicated off-roader and the monster-truck/show-truck/poseur crowd. There is a large body of off-roaders who do mild modifications to their vehicles: mild lift, slightly bigger tires, aftermarket bumper to attach a winch, etc. Then you have the people who convert their vehicles into an abomination that actually suck off-road and are dangerous on the highway. Somewhere between these two types of vehicles is a good place to draw the line. Balancing the needs vs freedoms of people in a state as large as Texas is difficult. You have areas where banning some metal aftermarket bumpers (non-airbag compliant) makes sense, like in our large cities. But, you also have people living in areas where vehicles are destroyed and people killed by deer in the road. I don't know what the right balance is, but there have to be compromises from both sides to create new laws.

 

QQ

 

Interesting Canadain report on driver distractions.... http://www.safety-council.org/info/traffic/distract.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ May 23 2007, 01:16 AM) [snapback]447928[/snapback]</div>

YES, I am very concerned and am presently starting a petition to take to Congress to for better regulations on these trucks.

My son of 24 years was just killed 4 months ago by one of these trucks. He was a passenger in a 4-door mid-size Chevy when their vehicle was hit on the passenger side by a large truck, it wasn't even really monster size, however, bumper height was supposed "legal" at 30" however, he drove directly over top of my son killing him instantly. Had the accident have involved two "like" vehicles, I'm sure he would be with me today and I would not be writing this.

PLEASE, PLEASE, help me to convince Congress that the legal bumper height vs. weight, should NOT be based strictly on the OPERATORS own safety, it should be based on the safety of the innocent people who share the public roads.

Every day I see these monster trucks on the road some are even sooo high off the road my car would go right under them, worse yet, look at the tires! My God, if he is involved in an accident, the typical car owner hasn't a prayer of survival.

Long and short of it is, our roads are seriously turning into a "ROAD WAR"... where the "Big Man Wins". I see more and more of them on the roads every single week, it is because we are FORCING the typical car owner to go buy BIGGER because that is what they have to do to feel safe on the road. I would love to see statistics on how many people owned cars vs. trucks in the past 2 years, as I haven't a doubt it has probably at LEAST DOUBLED. (So why does the fuel consumption continue to rise so rapidly?)

I have to admit, I myself am now looking to sell my "car" to buy an SUV to feel safer. I have seen the simple science of big small, and often have my 1 year old Grandaughter with me, so I feel that is what I have to do to feel we are "safe" on the road.

I am trying to move forward since the loss of my son, Joshua. God I miss him soooo much! I still can't get the words out of my mind stating there were tire tracks over top of the car he was in. How can this happen and why do we continue to let it worsen? I ask your help to seek better street regulations, write to your local State Representative, as it is up to each and every one of us to succeed.

I am presently working on a petition which I will be posting soon, so please keep your eye out for it to sign on behalf of me, my son, your Parents, Grandparent, and CHILDREN!

Sincerely,
"Helpless"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Helpless @ Jul 24 2007, 11:17 PM) [snapback]484490[/snapback]</div>

Let me first say how sorry I am to hear of your loss....

My Wife and I moved to Florida (Valrico) in 2001 from Connecticut and we were quite shocked at the amount of "jacked up" pick-up trucks (and a few Suburbans, too) down here, but at that time we were even more suprised at the amount of large SUV's. For an area that has no "winters" or any large hills these large SUV's seemed out of context and really not needed. If the vehicle was primarily needed to transport a large number of children, then a MiniVan would do that just as well, perhaps even better. But none-the-less my Acura TL felt so low to the ground and I actually couldn't "see" traffic well when these large SUV's were in front or on side of me. My Wife in her Chevy Malibu felt the exact same way, as well as being "mad" about this uncontrollable situation down here. At that time, we had the mentality (remember, back then in 2002) that "if you cannot beat them, JOIN 'em !!" so we sold the two vehicles and bought a new Acura MDX (SUV) and then a Honda CR-V (SUV), sat up high off the road and felt "equal" to many SUV's (except the Tahoe's, Suburban's, 2 foot raised pick-up trucks and Hummers).
SUV's were great for bringing home large items like big, flat screen Sony TV's, 60+ pieces of St. Augustine SOD, Bathroom Vanity & Medicine Cabinet, four tires and four rims all in the same space, etc. but then, in the years to follow (2005, 2006, 2007) as gasoline prices went up-up-up and the Acura ONLY running on premium fuel ($$) were were really shelling out excessive money for gasoline. The CR-V not to bad being regular fuel, 4 cylinder, but the MDX was outrageous at 19 MPG (premium fuel). We finally (this past May '07) traded-in the gas guzzling MDX and bought a brand new '07 Prius.

My Wife and I HATE all the "jacked-up" Pick-up trucks (Monster Truck wanna-be) here in Florida and especially the fact that if ever "hit" by one it would "crush" our driver/passenger compartment with either it's wheels and/or illegally high bumpers.

We certainly would LIKE TO SEE THEM OFF OUR PUBLIC STREETS, and will sign ANY Florida (or Nationwide) Petition to help get them back to "normal height" with "normal tires" or classified strictly as ONLY OFF PUBLIC ROADS !! Use the PM to get my email address and I will try to assist you in the best we can, whether it would be writing email or letters to the Governer or whatever.

I firmly believe that local Police officers (at least down here in this part of Florida - Tampa area) all TURN A BLIND EYE to the fact these illegally jacked up vehicles, most without tailgates too, are breaking the law !!
:angry: