Honda killing the Accord Hybrid

When the Insight was axed I said that in 2008 GM will be #2 in the hybrid race behind Toyota. This is comming true. Honda will not have a new hybrid till the 2009 model year <dedicated new hybrid car> and will not make a hybrid Fit, CRV or Element.

GM will have a few hybrid vehicles in 2007 with the two mode system and even more with the weak BAS system. I don't consider GM a cleaner company then Honda by any means, I am just disappointed with Honda.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(seftonm @ Jan 7 2007, 12:11 AM) [snapback]371989[/snapback]</div>

is that supposed to be low enough to be acceptable??? so that is only hmmm. lets see. average 355,000 commuters, average sit or crawl time in Seattle area every morning is about 19 minutes. so thats .11 gal divided by 60 mins times 19 minutes times 355,000 twice a day. that is ONLY 25,000 gallons of fuel idled away, doing nothing but poluting our atmosphere, accelerating GW, reducing our supplies, raising the price of fuel, lowering the money we can spend on other things in our lives etc.

well, our traffic is lengendary for being bad, we bounce from 2-4 for worst traffic lists but OH WAIT!!!~

that is only FREEWAY commuters... that does not count people like me that rarely takes the freeway. i go to work at 6 am come home at 5pm. average time to work, 13 minutes. (5.1 miles) average time to home 24-35 mins (5.5 miles one way streets makes the route slightly different that and left turn restrictions during rush hour in downtown Olympia)

so i fit the average of the 20 mins sit and crawl time in the afternoon but not in the morning. the stats i pointed out above do not include people who dont use the freeway or the surface street congestion or the millions of cars at the thousands of lights that sit there every day.

but we take Seattle area only, and that is 25,000 gallons of gas wasted if everyone is driving this supposedly clean diesel, add another 100 major commuting areas and now its 2.5 million gallons of gas. ok not much, a small fraction of the fuel we burn, but realize all this gas is getting us ZERO mpg.

so that figure for that car might sound good to you but is doesnt sound that good to me


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSantos @ Jan 7 2007, 06:36 AM) [snapback]372032[/snapback]</div>

im sorry to hear that you feel that Priuschat is not worth recommending. that is to be expected. nothing fills the needs of everyone. i hope you find a forum that will accept your posts without question or argument and does whatever need be to keep you happy. i for one will be sorry to see you go. you do provide a fresh point of view and your concern for humanity is obvious. but if it means agreeing with your posts, then all i can say is... the door aint locked you are free to leave

 

People in this thread seem to be arguing the merits of one technology over another. The more varied the development of different technologies, the greater benefit for everyone! If all of the car manufacturers gave up and only produced HSD or Diesel, there would be no innovation and stagnation. Start attacking Hummers again, thanks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sanguis @ Jan 7 2007, 12:22 PM) [snapback]372101[/snapback]</div>

Great words of wisdom my friend.

As DeltaFlyer and others stated before, the UAV folks would just love to see this go on. We're barely at 1% of the market and the "this hybrid is better than that hybrid" is already causing fractures. With self inflicted wounds like this who the heck needs hybrid bashers?!

Anyway, time for me to take a good break.



Cheers;

MSantos

 

I want to thank both Tideland, sanguis, others for looking at the big picture.

If you research various ICE's - current and future, you will see different strengths and weaknesses - same for hybrid systems.

The IMA may be scrapped, but hybrid technology can hardly be considered mature. Trying different things is part of progress.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sanguis @ Jan 7 2007, 01:22 PM) [snapback]372101[/snapback]</div>

Absolutely. Different needs require different means.

However, I still do not find it acceptable to consider emissions equal to a gas engine as acceptable. They're not. We need as clean as possible. Set the bar higher. We need as efficient as possible. Set the bar higher.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Jan 7 2007, 12:14 PM) [snapback]372079[/snapback]</div>

That depends how you define acceptable. It's much better than average but clearly a lot more than no fuel burned. I never said it sounded good or bad, it was simply presented as a fact related to what I was discussing. I'm glad you seemed to have so much fun with it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny @ Jan 6 2007, 10:33 AM) [snapback]371728[/snapback]</div>

50% of VWs sold in Canada are TDIs. 100% of Smarts are CDIs. People here can't get enough of them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jan 7 2007, 09:37 PM) [snapback]372276[/snapback]</div>

That's amazing, considering they rolled off the same line as the corollas did.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jan 5 2007, 08:46 PM) [snapback]371613[/snapback]</div>

Toyota is expanding its hybrid line with which new hybrids after the Camry?
What exactly are Toyota's plans 20 years form now and 100 years from now? Were you in on a toyota strategic planning session? YOu just blindly assume that if Toyota is involved it must be great and right.

I also enjoyed Tideland Priuses ancedotal evidence of Toyota's superiority over Chevrolet by comparing a '94 Corolla to a '94 Prizm. I would like someone to tell me exactly how many parts on those two cars were different?

Some of you need to take of the Toyota-red colored blinders.

How many hybrids could be classified as a sales success let alone an economic success? There is only one that at this point in time could be considered a success, the Prius. The rest have all been failures(sales and economic) to very differing degrees.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hornhonker @ Jan 7 2007, 11:54 PM) [snapback]372304[/snapback]</div>

I think there will be a fair number of US buyers. These will be the people who live in the newer far-out suburbs in less dense metro areas, typically. Around Chicagoland there is a road to Rockford - I 90. There are plenty of people who live in or almost in Rockford who do a daily banzai charge down that road to work into the north-western suburbs. That is about 50 miles one-way. The traffic has been described to me as a minimumn of 70 mph nose-to-tail in the slow lane, and 80 plus in the fast lane. A turbo-diesel Accord will realise these people significant fuel savings.

I would guess there are similar situations out in the western states, and smaller metro areas.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 7 2007, 11:13 PM) [snapback]372329[/snapback]</div>

I don't have to be in on a strategic planning session. I just have to pay attention and have average retention for what I read.

Toyota is planning on hybrid versions of it's line by 2010. It will probably be a few years later than that, but that's their direction. I suspect that eventually they'll phase out the ICE only with the hybrids remaining while they work on their EV line.

It's also no secret that Japanese companies have plans projecting 5, 10, 20 years and 100 years into the future. Not unreasonable to assume Toyota is one of them. It has to do with "vision".

"A vision statement describes in graphic terms where the goal-setters want to see themselves in the future. It may describe how they see events unfolding over 10 or 20 years if everything goes exactly as hoped."

The Japanese will stretch their vision statement to 100 years into the future. Of course it will be revisited and adjusted. That's called flexibility. The mission statement reflects how the vision will be accomplished. Toyota uses the Hoshin process. Hoshin plan

Toyota uses the Hoshin planning process

"Toyota's long-term vision and strategy call for the hybrid becoming the de facto standard as the next generation of vehicles (instead of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles or gasoline vehicles, for instance)." Source "Long term" is probably more than the end of the fiscal year.

 

Many of you are making the assumption that clean diesels will not make enough headway in 2-3 years. Honda has put themselves under considerable pressure by announcing to the public they can do this...they may have made enough progress to conclude it's within reach. Remember that Toyota and other automakers are working on clean diesels too.

On the lighter side, the clean diesels using urea should work well with truckers. If you don't know what I mean, then browse > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7912464/

 

We have the Accord diesel over here (in the UK) and it's a cracker.

Massive torque means really quick in real-life driving, really quiet and refined and still manages 50 mpg day in, day out. It has excellent reviews all round, which is ironic as Honda were totally opposed to diesel engines for decades.

I think you'll love it when you get it.

Also, please remember that the number 1 benefit of going with a diesel engine is in the type of renewable fuel you can use (oil crops are vastly more efficient than ethanol crops).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clett @ Jan 8 2007, 05:40 AM) [snapback]372391[/snapback]</div>

Doesn't matter - it's been prounounced dead on arrival.

It might be helpful to have some links concerning the chances of diesel emissions being reduced.

I feel wierd - over a week ago, efusco, myself and others were at TDI Forums being hybrid apologists to those with an open mind. Most were, but a few were saying some incredibly untrue things about hybrids.

Seems the only differnce in this thread and the TDI thread is a different vehicle is getting the sledgehammer.

 

When considering a diesel over a hybrid, one must remember that diesel is usually 30 cents more per gallon than regular unleaded, at least here in harrisburg, pa.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Jan 8 2007, 02:46 AM) [snapback]372380[/snapback]</div>

I wasn't trying to pick on anyone, most of you posts Tidelandprius are pretty fair and well thoughtout. My point was there were several years of Prizm/corolla with less than 50 different parts yet CR and many on here just always assumed the Toyota was so much better. I have a fairly close friend with a Lexus SUV(long story). He has had two axles in it and lots of HVAC problems. If that was a Chevy or a Cadillac his tolerance for problems would be not even close to the same.
GM had their head up there collective nice person for several years and I certainly acknowledge that. You would never believe what that has cost me. They have turned the corner and will soon be running in my opinion. Ford and DCX make me very nervous and if anyone wants two mopar franchises I would sell in a minute.

I apologize for spelling errors. In a hurry and should not be on here so much. I am just fascinated by it.