Honda Announces Civic Hybrid Pricing

My admiration is based on the engineering. I find it amazing, and I'm pretty sure Toyota does too, that a system that's so much simpler and less complex than HSD delievers 90% of the benefits.

 

2 power outlets are not listed on the EX trim level according to this site.

(EX adds to or replaces:
• 16" alloy wheels
• 4-wheel disc brakes
• One-touch power moonroof with tilt feature
• 160-watt AM/FM/XM Ready®/CD audio system with 6 speakers
• MP3/auxiliary input jack
• Remote entry system with trunk release
• Exterior temperature indicator
• Steering wheel-mounted audio controls
• Variable intermittent windshield wipers
• 60/40 split fold-down rear seatback)

Other vehicles that aren't hatchbacks have a wiper (I wish I had one on my other computer), but we can take that off. In terms of the adjustable seat belts, just because you can't imagine they don't have them, doesn't mean they do. Judging that they actually are selling tires as a feature (Look for P195/65 R15 89H all-season tires under the DX trim in additiion to listing have 15 inch wheels), why wouldn't they sell adjustable seat belts?

I don't see this conversation going anywhere as I listed 10-12 options and then you post how one or two don't make sense, I post the other 10 that aren't on the HCH and you post how one or two aren't necessary in your opinon.

My point is not to quibble about what are necessary features, but that based on features list, there are some things that the HCH has standard that the Prius doesn't and vice versa. Depending on which features are important to you, it depends on whether or not one is "better equipped" than the other. Comparing feature lists doesn't provide the evidence to say that one has more features than the other. Hence not one car is going to fit everyone.

 

That argument is a common distraction technique.

Perhaps a claim could be argued about being a little bit simpler. Honda takes a complete engine & transmission then tacks on an electric motor. Toyota replaces the transmission with a PSD and two electric motors. But arguing those details alters your thinking away from the actual point.

The point is to establish a platform onto which enhancements can take advantage of. EV mode is the prime example. We know that an improvement in battery technology and/or a plug-in option and/or an ultra-capacitor and/or a fuel-cell stack can utilize the already existing EV mode, providing amazing city MPG and an impressive improvement to highway MPG. Enhancements to A/C and Heater operation is possible as well. This is due to Prius being the "full" hybrid design, which is intended to support heavy electrical activity.

That is not the case for the Honda hybrid, since it is only an "assist". The electrical activity is inherently limited. Lacking a second motor and the ability to halt the engine during electric propulsion prevents major advancements.

Don't fall for the distraction. Look forward instead.

 

I still do not understand the argument here. Besides the options there is always the subjective factor that plays an important role in vehicle selection.

I just looked at the 06 HCH this morning in my dealer's parking lot and I was really disappointed with it's size. It looks too small compared with the Prius. I have scheduled a test drive next week and I will post my impressions. I have to give credit to Honda for the interior design and the quality of the plastics/interior.

I was sold on the Prius however after I test drove twice.

 

i think the solution is for johnnycat to go ahead and get himself a HCH, since that's what he seems to prefer, then give us a comparison

 

I think I'll pass. I like the cargo capabilities of my Prius. But if they offered the Civic hatchback with a hybrid, I'd jump.

I've bruised some egos I think.

 

Check out Johnnycats earlier posts about the HCH being better equipped that the Prius and his list of the features that the HCH has but not the Prius. I was responding to those posts by pointing out that there are more than a few features that were on the Prius and not the HCH. Your are right about the options are only a part of the decision that goes into a car, which is why that was my last post on the differences in features.

I haven't gotten a chance to see the 2006, but the 2004's felt a lot smaller than the Prius, I wasn't able to fit comfortably in my test drive. I haven't heard of a size increase in 05 or 06.

 

Great way of looking at it John! I had never quite thought of it in that way before, but it does make sense. Toyota's system, while more complex, offers more potential for the future. I vaguely remember Toyota execs saying that they could use the HSD with fuel cells. Any ideas if Honda could use their system with fuel cells?

It will be interesting how the redesign affects the numbers of HCH's sold.

 

That is about why I decided on the Prius over HCH,,,

Traction Control was a big issue with the winter weather upstate NY.
The storage room with the split rear seat & hatchback
The extra interior room in the Prius, particularly in the front seat as I am 'large'. (6'2' 275+)
The larger Fed Credit in 2006
Though I believe the 2005 HCH will qualify, the 2005 HCH was not mentioned as an eligible vehicle for the 2005 New York $2000 credit. It only mentioned the Prius and Insight as eligible vehicles.

 

We'll never really know. The quantity for the 2006 model year will actually be less than it was for the 2005 model year. (28,000 instead of 47,000)

The reason for the quantity reduction is that only the CVT will be available. And we all know that a major draw for the Civic-Hybrid was the fact that it was available as a manual.

 

The body and interior of the 2006 HCH is identical to the 2006 Civic Sedan. Since those are on the dealers' lots already, you can sit inside one or test-drive it to see what the new HCH will be like in that respect.

 

Hmmm...

Are you resorting to personal insults because you are unable to rebut my arguments by intelligently articulating facts, reason and logic? What is better in Jonnycat26's eyes is a subjective as opposed to an objective judgment, based upon his likes, dislikes, preferences and needs, and is not necessarily better in the eyes of others.

My "Idol Worshiping" comment was made in jest, as is evident by the LOL emoticon which accompanied it.

 

... now that's moving forward! :lol:

 

There is usually a good reason why the gas mileage isn't as good... I don't think its becuase the civic "weighs" more... so why doesn't it get better mileage?

I will guess is the technology just isn't there for the extra few miles... they may be more about profit than breaking through new technology.......

But I don't compare them with Toyota.... only the other ones......
I haven't investigated... but Toyota adds the touch of class and technology together.... most of the other hybrids cut back on the class to allow room for the hybrid without raising the price too much and so loosing thier competitive edge...
Toyota does a pretty good job of offering both... especially with the room and speed they offer.

Thats another thing.. gas mileage is one thing.... but how slow do you have to go to get it? and how poor is your acceleration?

Just what is the horsepower of this new civic and what are the ratings?... will you still feel like you are in a glorified golf cart?

 

I'm sorry, you're gonna have to explain some of this to me.
The new IMA in the '06 HCH seems a lot like the HSD. How is HSD so (not clearly) superior?

I'm pretty sure Toyota calls the thing between the engine/motor and the wheels a CVT and the T stands for Transmission......The HCH comes with a CVT too which also "allocates and distributes power from the engine and the electric motors according to the optimal needs of the car". The HCH CVT is run by electronics, just like the Prius CVT and it seems to me that Honda has coded two seperate programs, one for higher mileage and one that runs the revs a little higher for a "sportier" feel. How does that not apply and how is that not a feature?????

 

Actually, in "warp stealth" the Prius's engine turns, just like the Civic's. But you're right, the Civic doesn't have the true stealth, since the engine still turns, but I don't really see that as wasting much energy. It's actually probably a good thing, since it keeps the oil pump and coolant flowing.