Honda Accord Hybrid: 50 MPG City - clone Toyota

Another day, another article about the Honda Accord Hybrid - Prius Killer..

Got to love it when someone gives themselves an out when numbers don't meet their reviews later.

 

This is available right now! Driving Review - 2013 Lexus ES 300h - Hybrid Luxury - Test Drive - Video Review - YouTube

 

Bob while the hsd should be more efficient between 10 and when the transmission connects to the ice around 43 without heavy acceleration. At slow speeds the hsd simply can not supply much torque directly to the wheels from the ice, it also goes through the electrical path.

94% seems much too efficient for the hsd type transmission, but 85% also is too high for the electric transmission then the accord is in serial mode. The hsd has extra losses when the ice is off, so in a real or electronic pulse and glide (recharging battery some on pulses, draining it some on glides), the glides can be more efficient as can regen braking with the honda lithium system than the camry hsd nimh system.

I'm not sure why you would say c&d does not understand the hsd system they seem to quite well. The honda accord system would be more efficient than the toyota camry system while cruising above 43 mph, given equal ice efficiency, drag, rolling resistance. If the honda is much more efficient at lower speeds then the ice must be being kept at a more efficient range, or the battery/software are working better. We do not yet know if either is the case.

 

A wet clutch puts some debris in the oil. Likely to wear on the long term. Transaxle oil change may be a need every 50-100k, while in PSD is only "recommended"...

 

50-100k for fluid changes is the norm for a step transmission, and those can have multiple clutches. Some are even called 'lifetime' fill.

 

1st Fuelly numbers do not show 50mpg....

But user may have checked off Hybrid when it is the normal Accord too.

 

The pricing does not make sense though. The plugin is $40k. The fully loaded non-plugin is $35k. With about $5k in CA for fed/state incentives, why go for a fully loaded non-plugin then?

 

2014 Honda Accord Hybrid: First Drive Report

 

First Drive Review: 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid (With Video)
By Alex L. Dykes on October 9, 2013

 

It isn't even at dealers yet.

Because you don't live in, or close enough to, Ca or NY, or you need more trunk space.

 

Even one only wet clutch means less oil life than a simple gearbox/diff/transaxle like the PSD, you'll agree.

 

"he Honda Accord is the only hybrid without a transmission"

Not true. Toyota PSD is fixed ratio, also. Can't understand this statement in the CADriver link...

 

I can't wait until they start arriving at dealers to be available for a test drive to really understand how it works. Sadly, though, MN is often one of the last states to get hybrids/PHEVs in the nationwide roll-out

 

I can't fathom why they left a $7200 gap between the basic Accord LX and the basic Hybrid which is based on an EX platform. The best selling Accord is the LX. The best selling Prius has got to be the 2's and 3's. I know the Accord isn't directly in the Prius size class, but these cars will be cross-shopped. Why not offer one that squarely targets the average Prius selling price at about $25k?

 

I'll disagree. The inclusion of a wear item won't necessarily decrease fluid life. It will have affect on the filter life, but in practice that might be small.

The reason that in, general terms, that automatic transmissions would require more frequent changes has to do with the fluid's job. In a manual, or simple gear box, the fluid's primary job is lubrication. Just like the motor oil in the engine. Some manuals actually use motor oil for fluid.

There are still wear particles in both, engine and manual transmission, fluids. These are just small enough not to interfere with the fluid lubricating parts. Big enough pieces mean something broke. The engine has a filter and the transmission doesn't though. This is because the engine gets way hotter, and will scorch some of oil, breaking it down. The motor oil filter job is to remove those scorched particles.

Automatic fluid on the other hand, needs to perform as an hydraulic fluid along with lubricating. Having have to do two jobs, means the fluid has some limits that the oil in a simple gear box won't. The big one is that it is more sensitive to heat. 200F is the limit of traditional transmission fluid before it starts to brake down. It's why automatic fluid needs to be pumped through the radiator to cool. It will break down from heat faster than a manual trans fluid.

The transmission is also more sensitive to fluid viscosity. Oils tend to thicken with use. For a manual or engine this won't affect the component much. In and automatic, it could lead to issues in shifting. So an automatic's fluid will have a shorter life.

But when you get into 50K to 100k change intervals, I don't think think of that as short.

The PSD is a planetary gear set, which are found in some automatics. It diverts torque between the wheels and M/G1, and controlling which gears are spinning and their speeds gives the Prius the simulation of a CVT and gear ratios.

The gears in the Accord just act to transfer motor power to wheels. They are as much a transmission as the driveshaft. In EV mode, the motor drives the wheels directly. In ICE mode, the ICE drives the wheels directly, with input from the motor for passing and such. In hybrid mode, it is just serial hybrid with the motor driving the wheels directly. It is only wires between it and the ICE/generator. It can be called an electric transmission(actually an old idea), but there is no mechanical linkage.

The Hybrid Accord has as much transmission as an BEV.

 

Because the Civic hybrid is their Prius competitor. While a poor match up, that is how Honda has been viewing it.

Another view point, this is the return of Honda to the midsize hybrid sedan with a new system. The higher trims help pay for the start up costs in manufacturing. We didn't see lower trimmed Camry and Fusion hybrids until the second generation.

 

Seems that when the Toyota patents run out, others can copy what they want. With the 2015 Prius, Toyota will have many new patents and Honda will play catch up when they expire.....

 

I can't see how. It is sized and priced directly in line with the Prius C.

I hear that frequently with manufacturers, but the fact of the matter is, only having high level trims on offer at first often really kills a rollout. Honda has a lot of ground to make up with their hybrid lineup. Offering a less expensive entry model would really help.

 

That is a split of torque not power. We call it a power split device, but part of the power flows from mg1 to mg2, or in reverse or in or out of the battery.

Power is proportional to torque x rpm. The power going through the psd mechanically to the wheels is 2pi T x rpm/33000, Say R1 is the rpm of mg1, and R2 is the rpm of the ring gear. The constant drops out, but the percent of power going to the wheels is

0.72R2 /(0.72R2 + 0.28R1). You can work out the numbers yourself based on power required, ice rpm, but at low speeds r2 is going to be low, moving more of the power through the electrical path. If mg1 spins 4 times faster than the ring gear, you will get 0.72(R2)(0.72R2+0.28(4R2)) = 39% of power directly flowing through the psd, the other 61% is going through mg1. When mg1 is stationary, all (100%) of the mechanical power of the ice is flowing to the wheels, but some electrical power is used (from mg2 or the battery) to hold mg1 in place.