Honda Accord Hybrid: 50 MPG City - clone Toyota

move ahead or get out the way!

 

Microsoft said "move forward" to Vista, and I advised my brother "Don't buy it. It has terrible reviews." He insisted upon getting the latest-and-greatest, and ignored my advice. So I sat down in front of his new PC and gave it a try. After just 10 minutes I confirmed Vista was as bad as everyone said (constant hard drive thrashing & annoying UAC popups) (i.e. slooooow).

Now Microsoft is saying "move forward" to Windows 8, but I said "no" to that too. I'm sticking with 7 because it works. Just because something is the "latest-and-greatest" does not mean I have to accept it, especially when it's Worse than what came before. When Honda makes another 60+ hybrid like my insight G1, then I'll buy it. For now they appear to be doing no better than the Civic Hybrid released back in fall 2001 (i.e. highway rating of a mere 45).

 

Wow, 3-in-a-row!...

Yes, hybrids need an EV mode, to uncouple ICE from wheels. Even 1Gen Prii does that, it's a full-hybrid and the only way of keeping up overall effiency by reducing losses...

Constant clutching and unclutching happen in all recent cars with semiauto-gearboxes, and almost all Honda IMA have CVT...

If your IMA battery is not very useful, ditch it, you can save lbs and future pain...

 

Yes and my coworker's Volt gets over 500mpg. But that's because he, like you, is injecting free energy known as electricity to distort the true MPG (the true energy usage). It's kinda like saying "I got an A!" while not telling everyone my actual score was 65% but the prof me 30 free points. (I make myself sound smart, when in reality I got a D.)

Attempts to obfuscate the truth won't work. LOL What was your Prius G1 or G2's average? Somewhere around 45 or 50 I suspect.

 

That has nothing to do with my response to the "doesn't need an EV mode" and "has little useful purpose" comments. The design supports it already. It obviously does have useful purpose.

 

EV mode isn't necessary to decouple the ICE from the wheels. Neutral on the transmission works just fine for that. Awhile back, in '40s, '50s, or possibly '60s, cars would automatically go into neutral when coasting. The manual brakes of the era just weren't up to the task of stopping the car at higher speeds without engine braking. Thus regulations against such neutral coasting, and a hurdle for hybrids when they arrived.

To be clear, EV mode != EV operation in a hybrid. EV operation assists the ICE, allowing a smaller than typical engine and/or use of the Atkinson cycle or similar. Depending on the hybrid system, the electric side can be powerful enough to maintain steady speed, or even accelerate.

EV mode is the ability to have the car propel under electric only on demand. On the gen 1 and 2 Prius, it was a niffy little feature we in NA had to hack. As originally intended by Toyota, it was there to allow shifting the car's parking spot in the driveway if needed without using gas, or to leave your development without annoying the neighbors with the roar of the 1.5L. If the stars and the planets were aligned right, you could get up to 39mph in EV mode before the ICE kicked on. You can see EV operation at 60mph, IIRC, in the gen2 however.

EV operation allows improvements to overall vehicle efficiency. EV mode is a convenience feature and toy that can reduce fuel efficiency when over used.

Like horsepower, EV mode speed over a certain limit is just bragging. There could be some benefit for it, just like higher power, but on a non plug in, over using it just means more energy from gasoline going into the mechanical-electric and vice versa conversion losses.

 

Neutral meant ALSO shutting off the ICE?!

 

On a very regular basis (many times during your drive), the engine would shut off and remain off at speeds up 42 mph. That EV operation (standard, no button hack) was automatic and routine. We referred to it as STEALTH, since it wasn't a normal part of being a FULL hybrid rather than a seperate mode.

 

hahaha, you try to blur with OS(microsoft). you are comparing apple with orange.

ever heard about alternate OS. Linux? I move forward with Linux .
windows 8 is perfect not like Vista(Microsoft released Vista too early, Please check old microsoft news).
I prefer Windows 8 but does not like Metro UI, but UI can be replace easily like Windows 7 UI.
I use Linux(redhat/centos) and windows 7 at works; switch to windows 7, windows 8. and centos at home.



please stick with the thread topic

 

Some do,but mostly no. Even if idling, an ICE decoupled from the transmission can use less fuel than leaving it drive.

I didn't realize you were also including engine off in your post. You do need EV operation then to maintain speed. I believe IMA can do this. At least the current generation. You don't need an EV mode for a hybrid system to do this on its own.

I'm rusty of those terms.
GLIDE was no ICE, EV, or regen.
STEALTH was like a glide, but used EV.
Wasn't term a seperate term for stealth at highway speeds.

These were all controlled by careful throttle control and the software. An EV only mode isn't necessary for a successful non plug in hybrid. I think Toyota not giving it, I think correctly, to NA at first lead to too much emphasis being put on that ability. So it became a talking point for advertizing.

EV mode isn't even a must for a plug in hybrid. It helps, but it has been shown a larger pack topped of by the grid can improve overall gas consumption with conversions. The PPI might be more efficient if the designers didn't have to set the EV speed satisfy marketing.

 

I know my Insight and Civic do not have EV modes, so some say they are not "real hybrids", but my signature shows I saved a lot of gasoline (~90 and 70mpg respectively).


It's funny to see Toyota owners defending the new Honda design. I thought I'd never see that......

 

I thought it was pretty evident I was speaking about the "New" Insight as released against the 3rd Generation Prius.

I think Honda get's it now, which is why you have new hybrid systems in the new Accord. But yes, I think Honda was too conservative with their "new" Insight.

It's a smaller Prius looking automobile, with an older, less efficient hybrid system in it. Whether fair or not, when released the new Insight was compared directly with 3rd Gen Prius.

If you can remember back Pre-Release to both the New Insight and The 3rd Gen Prius, the build up for both automobiles was phenomenal. Quite simply, The 3rd Gen Prius lived up to more of it's reality and hype than The New Honda Insight. The Prius was simply a better product. There was improvement.

The Insight? Well it's at least debatable that it IS even better than it's predecessor by comparison.

I actually like the new Insight, and kind of think it's maligned somewhat unfairly as a product. But yes, I believe Honda was too conservative. The new Insight as a product, was older technology, in a smaller package, offering less efficiency and benefit.

 

Its down fall was the price.
Going with older tech and the rest isn't a problem if the price tag matched it. We were expecting something that would cost a few thousand more than the Fit with the 'hybrid for all' motto. Instead, it arrived higher and closer to the Prius. A wider price gap would have lessened the comparisons. The hybrid Fit might have done better at the Insight price with its greater utility.

 

I agree.

Since I was seriously looking to buy a new vehicle around the time Gen 3 Prius and The New Insight was released I looked at both. I like Honda products.

Seemed to me early in release Honda dealerships were greedy. The mark up on Insights was considerable. A Prius II was simply a much greater value, and The Insight from a cost perspective was far from being the Hybrid for Everyone.

At the time a head to head and cost comparison clearly IMO favored The Prius.

 

it didn't help that they crowned it the prius killer, before it even hit the streets. kinda like what we're now hearing about the hyacc from the gear heads and honda fan boys.

 

"The Toyota Camry is America’s bestselling (and perhaps least compelling) family sedan. Its sterling reputation for reliability makes it the car people buy when they don’t want to think about buying a car. It is quiet but otherwise pretty dull to drive, except in the slightly sportier SE trim..."

Toyota Camry Reviews - Toyota Camry Price, Photos, and Specs - CARandDRIVER

"The Camry SE has a lot going for it, no doubt, but sporty, engaging, and fun aren’t three of its attributes."

"Now, I could just tell you the Accord Sport is a furlong ahead of the Camry and a nose behind the Mazda, but what fun is that?"

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1305_2013_honda_accord_sport_toyota_camry_se_2014_mazda6_grand_touring/viewall.html#ixzz2pBN6LxjK


"... it was a very close finish with the edge going to the Accord thanks to better exterior styling, a more comfortable interior and some trick features like the lane watch camera. The fact it's better to drive and more efficient in the real world are just an added bonus."


2013 Toyota Camry vs 2013 Honda Accord : Car Reviews

Now the Honda Accord is back at the beginning, and it wins this test easily. As usual, it's the total package that makes this car special. The new four-cylinder engine and CVT work incredibly well together, providing usable performance and a real-world improvement in fuel consumption. Honda also improved the look and feel of the cabin, while adding the tech features that have become important in this class. In the midst of checking all those boxes, company executives didn't lose sight of details like handling and steering feel — key ingredients in the character of Accords past and present.

Next to the Accord, the 2012 Toyota Camry LE is down on flavor. It's every bit as useful as the Honda on the inside, but on the road, it's slower and wholly uninterested in doing anything other than taking you to work in comfort. For some, that's enough, especially given this LE model's competitive price tag.
2013 Honda Accord vs. 2012 Toyota Camry Comparison Test
"While the Camry doesn't lag far behind the Accord in any one way—well, except styling, perhaps—Honda has produced a more compelling design and driving experience that still hits all the marks for practicality, comfort, and features."
Toyota Camry Vs. Honda Accord: Compare Cars (Page 2)
"....In a photo finish, however, the Accord wins this stakes race. The list of things that the reborn-for-2013 Honda does well is just longer, better balanced and exquisitely executed."

KBB Short Answer: Honda Accord, Nissan Altima or Toyota Camry? - Kelley Blue Book

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Any question??

 

using generalities, i think you're exactly right. you'll notice i skip all the mod threads here, they must be frustrated in some way. and most reviewers are car guys. generally, the best compliment they ever give to a toyota is, 'it's very reliable'. i had a miata for 10 years, i got over it. and that's a pretty feeble attempt at being a car guy. my brother is completely the opposite. he was a sixties gearhead and hasn't changed. he hates the prius and everything it stands for. thinks there's plenty of oil in the world and doesn't care what we have to do to get it. and it should always be subsidized to keep the price down. i think for priuschat tho, i'm in the majority? no way of knowing. i hope the hyacc is everything they claim it is, i just don't care that it's fast or sporty, that's the same mistake honda made with the first accord hybrid. they know thier market, and they're sticking to it. that will always limit thier sales. toyota is bread and butter, honda is salmi sandwich.

 

Family and friends have owned Hondas, and they are nice cars. From what a hear from here and elsewhere, it sounds like their only drawback is the dealers.

I think the real mistake with the first Accord hybrid was not calling it an Acura. Luxury branded power hybrids seem to held to different standards.