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Featured Here's why I don't transport gasoline in plastic containers...

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Georgina Rudkus, May 13, 2021.

  1. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    The new plastic ones, at least here in CA, do not off gas. They are somewhat more difficult to use as well. The gassing seems to come from the filling apparatus and or it's mating to the plastic tank, at least with the older ones. If I brought them into the house my 80+ year old dad would complain, but not with the new ones.

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  2. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    The fuel tank in your car is permeable to VOC's or volatile organic compounds.

    (PDF) Modeling of Fuel Permeation in Multilayer Automotive Plastic Fuel Tanks

    The outgassing is slow, but it occurs. Metal is impermeable to VOC's.

    Plastic gas tanks in cars releases VOC's through the walls of gas tanks slowly but not enough concentration to start a fire. However, in a closed garage, the gas fired water heater must be elevated above any possible gasoline fumes that might outgas.
     
  3. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    o_O
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The water heater requirement is in case of a gasoline spill.

    Gasoline is a mix of different compounds, and not all of them will permeate through a plastic can. Those that do may not be a fire risk.

    The gas cans may have had no role in starting this fire. They were likely stored in the back. Going by the paint damage on the Hummer, that area was the coolest part of the fire. There is more damage to the front of the truck. The hood had been removed for the fire fighters to get to a fire in the engine bay.
     
  5. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    If you have a special red plastic gaso can for fuel, reputable and up-to-date re: regulations, the plastic is thick and is a special treated plastic to prevent (or greatly minimize) the vapor leakage through the plastic. Of course the lids must be properly secured.

    A few years back I was experimenting, and used a HDPE plastic water jug filled to exactly 1-gallon. Over several weeks, I lost about 5% of the gasoline through the thinner plastic of the water container. Presumably it was the light ends butanes/pentanes seeping through as vapor. Pics probably posted here somewhere. I probably used a windshield washer fluid plastic bottle.
     
    #25 wjtracy, May 14, 2021
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  6. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    It is either a PA6-6 polyamide. (Nylon is the DuPont de Nemours trademark) composite with HDPE or a laminate that is used in the plastic gas cans and vehicle fuel tanks to comply with EPA regulations.

    They do, however still allow permeation. A steel or any other metal container will not.

    The gold standard for gas cans is still the German invented jerry can, not called the NATO military fuel can.

    The Complete History of the Jerry Can | HiConsumption

    Jerrycan - Wikipedia
     
    #26 Georgina Rudkus, May 14, 2021
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  7. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    I have old ones and one new one. Oh the smell if you take the old ones in. I thought I'd get away with it but it was obviously strong enough for the old man to complain. My teenage kid and mid life wife did not on the other hand. (They just live with it I guess). Ended up moving to the garage.

    One question:. Is not the plastic safer with respect to static electricity?

    I have the plastic ones and noticed the gas stations have labels that note:. Remove portable tanks from car and place them on the ground when filling. I'm assuming the Hummer owner filled them in the Hummer? (Now I know why I guess, or actually the results, not specifically causality)...

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  8. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Just NOT true.
    It will not "permeate" through material that is made to hold it.

    Gas WILL splash out of the cap if it is not tightened properly though......plastic or metal.
     
  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I had to erase numerous responses before this one that would have gotten me AT LEAST yellow-carded by the mods.

    I had some coffee.
    I read the posts again....
    And then AGAIN!
    I took time to actually think about this, because I'm genuinely curious.....

    WHY would someone take gasoline into their house? o_O
     
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  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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  11. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Well, to be honest, to keep it from getting all dirty. Not so easy to clean up the nozzles so you don't pour dirt into the tank. BUT-. I did realize covering with a ZIP lock suffices to decrease worry outside/in the garage.

    (Should I put on my dunce cap now)???

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  12. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    That's a 2 year-old video from Mexico and it's wrong to share it in the context of recent events... Misinformation/confusing people keeps getting worse and worse when more and more often people post unrelated and outdated video to talk about the latest news. Please stop!!!
     
  13. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    I think we'll just both just agree that bringing gas cans into a house might not be the best practice......
     
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  14. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I think that was a valid point with older style plastic gas cans. All the plastic cans I had in the past no matter how well I tried to seal them ---> if I left them in my car with windows rolled up you could smell it. But I'm quite certain at this point that new plastic gas cans sold today don't have this problem. The plastic 2 gallon tank I recently bought for my little wood chipper has been left in my car for days with windows rolled up and no noticeable smell.
     
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  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    ^ Yeah.

    OK, up to NOW there was a very small chance that we weren't being pranked, but I think it's important to realize that these threads might someday be read by people in a post storm or earthquake (or pipeline) scenario who do not know that some of the posts are a little Onionesque.

    EVERY YEAR during a natural disaster, there are sad incidents involving people who simply DO NOT KNOW the basic safety precautions involved with gasoline storage, generator and chain saw operations.

    It's one thing when the Darwin award aspirate kills or severely wounds only themselves, but Darwin is a pretty messy process......:eek:
     
    #35 ETC(SS), May 14, 2021
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
  16. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    OK, so there MIGHT be some tiny little almost measurable passage of a few molecules of gasoline through some materials meant to hold it but..............

    That article is mostly about a mathematical model: "A numerical simulation model for predicting the fuel hydrocarbon permeation as well as the barrier layer thickness optimization for multilayer plastic fuel tanks is presented. " which in and of itself proves nothing.

    It also appears to be aimed toward gas TANKS in vehicles.
    I don't remember ever seeing anyone call a portable gas can a "gas tank".

    And finally, how much actually "leaks" out depends on many variables, including what material the gas can is actually made of.

    Most reasonable people would NOT consider a few molecules escaping over a long period of time to be a significant "permeation".
    They also would not consider this to be a reason to not use "plastic" gas cans.
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I always had a gas smell in the car from my old plastic cans, but they always had signs of leaking from the little vent caps. Even when kept upright; guess the sloshing was enough to get up there.

    I solved the problem by going electric with yard tools.
    I agree that's odd, but how much safer is it to have the cans in an attached garage? Inside, they are likely closer to a smoke detector.
     
  18. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    And they never DID because fuel was leaking out through the sides of the container.
    They did because the cap seal was crap......and still is on many.

    And leaving it in a space where the heat would build up and pressurize the can just made the leakage worse.
    That can still happen if you don't get the cap or tight ........or too tight so that the gasket is warped.
     
  19. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Interesting article by a manufacturer of gas cans on permeation.

    Collapsing Gas Cans, EPA Regulations, Why does my gas can collapse

    Metal fuel cans excepting those with an OSHA approved snap lid are not permeable and do not outgas.

    Accordingly, it will have the same mixture in the same proportions for years, if the seal remains intact.
     
  20. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    "SureCan is built with 6 layers wall thickness to prevent vapors from escaping as well as to be the most durable gas can on the market.
    Not all other fuel can manufacturers can say this."

    That first sentence would seem to dispel your original claim. :)
    And the second sentence is a "marketing claim" that may or may not be true. :rolleyes: