Help me with the math

The math, as I understand it, is ~$3 for a full battery and 73 miles for range unless you're not going to use the AC or heater, in which case you can get 100+ miles.

 

what is the $3. based on, national kwh average ?

 

The bay area.

Of course, everything *besides* electricity is freaking expensive. But at least my electric bill averages about $20/month...

 

I am in the Bay Area also on PG&E, but we have a good rate with TOU metering. It costs me (measured from the wall) just about one dollar to fill my PHEV battery if I charge at night. That will get me about 40 miles in the city or 20 miles on the highway at 70mph with zero gas used. (Providing I drive carefully.)

Occasionally I have to make a 100 mile round trip to the South Bay, and then I average somewhere over 100mpg. (the MFD only goes to 99.9)

 

To me this is the biggest problem with an electric car; you will never know your true cost of operation. I helped my bother in law build an electric truck about 6 years ago and he drives it every day. Except for the cost of replacing the battery pack (on his third one) he still cannot tell me how much it cost to drive his truck.

TED

 

Not really an issue with EVs, just an issue with the data recording.
I know Tesla, and believe the Leaf, Volt and the planned Ford EV and Rav4EV all show you how much electricity has been used to charge the batteries.

 

If we take out the really high price regions that don't allow for TOU, electric miles will be less expensive than gasoline. This is especially true if gas prices go up significantly but you lock in a price with the utility as we can do here.

Country wide prices are really not a good starting point, and assuming a charging infrastructure outside your home and work is not a good idea.

If you really want lowest TCO an econobox is going to cost a lot less, and you are not going to realise savings. If you care about using less gasoline and like the feel of electric drive and are willing to pay more for it, the PHEV and EV vehicles make sense.

 

IF you mean most people live where a ev costs more to fuel than a gasoline car, your graph explicitly says otherwise. Then if we break it down and eliminate alaska, hawaii, and NY and a few ne states, just about everyone does better.

What about California with the reported 40 cents per kwh. We have had response from pEEf that he pays 2.5-5 cents a mile in his phev. There are discounted TOU charges in much of california if you charge off peak. Some will of course pay more, and every individual should look into this themselves with their own utility.

My utility gives you a charger (to first 700) installed and $100 off electricity each year for 5 years. If you pay for green choice wind it averages 11.5 cents or less per killowatt hour locked in for 5 years. There are surcharges if used at peak times, but if you charge at night this is not a problem. Non green choice power is even cheaper, and I pay less for wind since I locked in years ago.

 

This is not an issue if you're Static Shock.

 

Catbert understands how oil works.

Dilbert comic strip for 02/19/2006 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.

 

Ya gotta love Dilbert!!!!
I've been using a similar argument for years now...

The real deal on the math for PHVs is that they're going to continue to be a 'play pretty' for well heeled environmentalists, and the eco-chic. In a few years...the technology will trickle down to the everyday car market, and poor work-a-day schlubs like me can get one...
Hybrids are just about there now, with the price of a G3 juuuuust about in the 20K range if you shop right, and an Insight well below 20K if you don't.
It's just gonna get better from here...

 

exactly

 

However, even if you can't afford or justify the cost of something with a large battery (EV / PHEV), please encourage others that can to do so. This will drive development of better (and cheaper) batteries so we all will end up with them in the "trickle down" as ETC mentioned.

 

If I'm going to encourage people to buy overpriced things so they can trickle down to me, they'll be Ferraris.

 

No, not the Volt. I think the only way you can get the electricity consumption is from the charger using a computer to connect to it.

 

FYI: We haven't had 110V in the US since before WW2. It's 120V!

I've figured out how to easily upgrade the portable EVSE that comes with the Leaf to allow 240V operation, this way you don't need a separate EVSE to get a reasonable charge time.