HEELP! "Stuck" in S Texas :(

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by MrPete, May 31, 2022.

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  1. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    This is what's confusing!
    • Oil use has been higher than normal since 110k miles
    • I've NEVER seen coolant loss. At all. (Drained some to do the EGR Cooler cleaning, that's it.)
    • (The rattles have only been this year. 100% in winter cold until now.)
    So what does it mean if coolant is truly 100% fine but oil is not? Is it possible that my entire issue is gummed up rings?

    (We have AAA with long distance towing due to my wife being a nature photographer. We once sank to the axles on a well-groomed gravel road leading to a National Wildlife Refuge. You never know ;) )
     
    #21 MrPete, Jun 1, 2022
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Occasional means weeks at first. I am convinced the engine startup heat seals the gasket. Result, very little coolant loss and the engine will run smooth when it is hot. Long idles will cause dramatic thermal cycling aggravating things. Sometimes 50f coolant temperature changes. You have seen that and are now a partial believer. It is good you have the enhanced AAA. You have seen that justification now. Hopefully you don't have to become a full head gasket believer until you get home.
     
    #22 rjparker, Jun 1, 2022
  3. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    Haven't seen any temp anomalies yet. I think I have some good logs that may be useful. Will check.
     
    #23 MrPete, Jun 1, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Are you certain you are burring this oil? No chance of a leak? Sometimes the easy check is to find out what is deposited on the back bumper, soot or wet oil. At >1qt per 1000miles something will be smeared on the back, might as well ask it.
     
    #24 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Jun 1, 2022
  5. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    A piece of cardboard under the engine overnight will tell the tale.

    The cats are impressive scrubbers until they clog. The egr and pcv love to eat oil as well. You might see more soot inside the tailpipe. Perhaps a seep at the timing chain cover. A quart every 400 miles happens when the cylinder wall scores up.
     
    #25 rjparker, Jun 1, 2022
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  6. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    Cyl 2 and 3 endoscope videos show the cyl walls.
    Do those appear scored? Not sure what kind of lines I am looking for. I see faint lines (horizontal in the video would be scoring AFAIK.)
     
    #26 MrPete, Jun 1, 2022
  7. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    I will look carefully.

    Interesting thing: with 250+ more miles here in S TX, zero additional oil use.

    I am wondering if there is an analogy to the "warm engine seals HG" idea...

    Along the lines of "long drives in very hot ambient, leads to leaky oil burning."

    Somehow this reminds me of the X-15 rocket plane engine design...

    FWIW got a P0301 misfire cyl 1 today...
     
    #27 MrPete, Jun 1, 2022
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    The head gasket that separates your combustion activity from your coolant is the same one that separates combustion from oil.

    Maybe this one breached to an oil galley instead of coolant? Might explain a few things.
     
    #28 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Jun 1, 2022
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  9. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    This suggests a block test (for exhaust fumes in coolant) would fail, and oil would not be cloudy.

    Would a leakdown test diagnose this?
     
    #29 MrPete, Jun 1, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2022
  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    A leakdown test performed by any first-timer can accurately tell the general state of the engine, but you have to combine it with some familiarity for the given engine to make it more meaningful and work out exactly where the pressure leak is occurring.

    In other words, anybody can read the gauges and calculate the leakdown percentage to make a simple go/no-go diagnosis, but once you find a substantial leak there is a bit more nuance in deciding if you are hearing air get past the rings or through a breached gasket, for example. I figured this out for a couple of other engines, but a Prius block would be all new to me.

    The way I read your situation, you're getting stuck between details where this probably ought to be a simpler decision between a gasket job from shop A or used engine from shop B.
     
    #30 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Jun 2, 2022
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  11. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    ...where most likely the "shop" will be me, or me and a buddy or two. Less money than muscle available.
     
    #31 MrPete, Jun 2, 2022
  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    BTDT, good luck!
     
    #32 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Jun 2, 2022
  13. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    Significant update:
    * gassed up. 400 miles, oil down one cup (not one quart) ...no idea why. Just reporting the facts
    * releasing coolant pressure at every significant stop worked GREAT! No misfires for a couple of days..until...
    * yesterday going to lunch had awful misfires every time the engine started at every light. ‍ ...what to do?

    I found that rapid tapping the gas pedal could get us up to speed without significantly increasing engine torque... and once the engine was above a slow idle, it ran smoothly.

    I drove a few miles with one foot gently on the accelerator, and the other riding the brakes a little, as needed. I did NOT want the engine to stop.

    Destination: Walmart.

    Picked up a can of Bar's Leaks HG repair. A YT video two year test showed it actually works sometimes. Not a permanent solution but I need to go 1500 miles if possible...

    Result:
    * The product has recently been improved. It is a copper colored slurry now.
    * I mostly followed instructions. (Didn't wait for it to fully cool. I have learned to slowly release coolant pressure... hopefully that does not further risk the engine block or head...)
    * Immediate good result. No more misfires. Buttoned it up... finished the day. Now heading north to Dallas.
    * Still 86 outside. Only 40mpg.

    More later. For now, praying we can make it through a week of local driving around Dallas, and a day to get home next Saturday!

    Thank You All, sooooo much!

    (Grr... auto-link even while writing this post caused me to lose post-in-progress)
     
    #33 MrPete, Jun 4, 2022
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  14. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Didn't you already replace the head gasket??????
    Seems to since you are having all these proglems with the engine, you'd want to
    get home before you got stranded and had to pay someone to fix the engine, at a higher price.
     
    #34 ASRDogman, Jun 4, 2022
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  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    just EGR cleaning if I’m not mistaken.
     
    #35 Mendel Leisk, Jun 4, 2022
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  16. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    Wouldn't driving with the shifter in "B" be an easier and safer way to keep the engine from stopping?

    Good luck!
     
    #36 CR94, Jun 4, 2022
  17. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    Had NO idea using "B" shifter would keep the engine running! Yeah, that definitely sounds simpler.

    I've NOT done HG yet.

    Interesting: a new friend tells me his cousin here in Dallas does mobile repairs... even has swapped a diesel block in a parking lot. Not only that, DallasJDMmotors.com is in the same suburb as our motel.

    A bit scary to consider a Gen3->Gen4 engine swap during the next week... yet it may even be cost effective. They have one for $1300. ?!!

    (Data update: fillup today halfway... ~300 miles, 2+ cups oil used.)
     
    #37 MrPete, Jun 4, 2022
  18. MrPete

    MrPete Active Member

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    Whoops. DallasJDMmotors website is outdated. No gen4 motors.

    HOWEVER: they have a 2015 gen3 with 40-50k miles, $1800. (If they have a tech available, they would do the swap for $700, with a 3 mo warranty.... but I may have a friend who can do it free. We shall see

    QUESTIONS

    $1800 sounds about right in today's market. Does that sound right to you?

    Are there other serious issues still with the 2015 Gen3 engine?

    Am I still looking at a likely Catalytic Converter swap down the line?


    I am hoping that this investment will gain us a lot more miles in our Prius... no more HG issues, no more oil burning. (Potentially I get a new water pump out of this as well ;) )
     
    #38 MrPete, Jun 6, 2022
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  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I don't think that's the case.
     
    #39 ChapmanF, Jun 6, 2022
  20. chuckiechan

    chuckiechan Member

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    Adding Seafoam fuel treatment keeps my bucking under control. Mine seems to be EGR related. Water hasn’t gone down in a year.
    Mark your water reservoir with a crayon when cold so if you are losing water into the engine you could be in catastrophic trouble with hydraulic lock soon.
     
    #40 chuckiechan, Jun 6, 2022
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