Headlight problem

That was the same issue I had in both headlights (I have 2007 w/ HIDs). I would turn on the lights and 30 seconds later they would flicker and go off. I had a Toyota dealer replace each bulb and now I turn them on and they stay on!! When installing, you have to be careful that you don't touch the bulbs with your hands or bump them (the dealer installed two sets lol).

 

Mine shut off in a second, not 30.. was pretty careful installing it, on and off for one second each time, 10-20 times will keep them permanently on...

wierd

 

Did you replace the whole headlight or the bulb?

 

Just the bulb

 

2005 Prius I have read numerous blogs about this headlight problem, and the class action suit against Toyota. Here is my offer: I have 160,000 miles on my '05 Prius and it recently developed the intermittent "on off" problem on the passenger side headlight. It comes on upon startup, but soon fails after a couple miles. Turn headlights off then on and it comes on again. Rather than replacing the bulb, which I can do, I have yet to hear anyone say, definitively, whether the bulb is failing or it's the power supply/ballast/control module that is the culprit. As I can see, people are changing out bulbs left and right at enormous cost but the problem may be with with the power supply. And that, my friends is Toyota's problem. In the old days, headlights went out, and you knew what to do. Replace and you are good to go (and how easy it was!). Now, with all the new technology, we are at the mercy of the dealers. Design nowadays has no place for do it your selfers.

 

As with most vehicles when the warranty runs out you are SOL. At 150k your bulbs should be nearing the end of their peak life. If you don't want to pay the dealers to perform the repair then do the research so you can do it yourself like we did in the old days. It's just a headlight so it's a simple fix to change out the bulb or replace the oem HID system with an aftermarket unit.

Rather thank complain about why not try fixing it?

The 2004-2005 model years are not part of the class action suit. They use the reliable D2R HID system as opposed to the D4R system on the 2006-2009 model years.

 

Agreed completely w/F8L. Moegs, you're fortunate to have the more reliable D2R system and that they lasted 160K miles. Us folks w/the 06-09 HID equipped Priues have had them fail MUCH earlier. Some even before the 5 year/50K mile warranty extension granted via Toyota Prius HID Headlight Class Action Settlement - Consumer Class Action Attorneys - Girard Gibbs LLP. I posted my situation at http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...lem-cheapest-best-bulb-buy-4.html#post1327507. I didn't run my as daytime running lights and I avoided cycling them.

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...g/34584-headlight-problem-83.html#post1367833 is starting point for you in finding instructions. The Amazon link I pointed you shows Philips D2R bulbs being only $37 each.

 

No one can say definitively, because anything is possible, however, at 95% confidence level, it is the bulbs. Buy D2R Philips bulbs on Amazon (they did after all last 160,000 miles) and replace them yourself.

 

Yep. Best to replace the bulbs first, as they're cheaper anyway.

Don't throw away or touch the quartz envelope of the old bulbs (otherwise it'll need cleaning w/alcohol), in case it turns out the bulb is still good.

 

I agree..... its rare to be anything but the bulbs..... how do I know?

Because when someone does have a new bulb go out prematurely, when replacing the second time it almost always last a long long time.

The bulbs are either inconsistent in their quality control or they are not an excellent match for the ballast in the GenII.

What I mean is if the ballast in the GenII is slightly undervoltaged on its output for instance, it would make many of the bulbs flake out too soon as they are measured for tolerance against higher voltages otherwise they would not pass QA.

Since other manufacturers tend to not have the same issues "at least to my knowledge".. I tend to think its a poor mismatch and Toyota will not swallow the recall on replacing the ballast on so many cars when its just a marginal problem.

I have also noticed the problem tends to exist whether your buying the OEM bulbs out of Germany or Ebay bulbs.....

I put a bulb in once, it went out within 2 weeks, I put a second bulb in and no problems since....
I also "know" I did not touch the bulb and was very careful with the installation.

I just buy several from ebay and live with the curse... I have two GenII's to babysit.

But generally I get 40+ K miles before they go out.

 

Thanks seilerts for raising my comfort level that it's probably the bulb. Guess I'll go ahead and replace both. I hope folks with the '06 - '09 Prius' get some relief. It's still hard for me to believe that the bulb goes off then turns back on just as bright, like the power had been cut. When it goes out it should STAY out! 'nuff said.

 

That's how HID bulbs work. HID bulbs don't work like incandescent bulbs, but then incandescent bulbs don't work like oil lanterns. Each new technology has its own quirks.

Tom

 

:cheer2:
Windstrings, I just want to say thank you for you information and instructions on this whole headlight issue. I asked an independent mechanic if he could change my headlight for me because I couldn't bear to pay what the dealership wanted to charge. He didn't know how so called the Toyota dealership who told him (sight unseen, mind you) that they would need to replace the ballast and it would cost me $900. Because of the you, I was able to change my headlight myself with a $50 bulb from Amazon. The dealership would have charged me more than that just to "analyze" the problem. You are my hero! Thanks for all you do here on the forum.

 

Exactly. The old halogen (and regular incandescent before them) bulbs had a thin, wire filament in them that had electrical current run through it to cause it to heat up and glow white hot-- that's how they produced light. So when the filament broke, no current could flow through to heat it up, thus no light.

With HID bulbs, there is no filament at all. In theory this makes them much more reliable and long-lasting because there's no filament to break causing a failure. But how they do work is they're filled with a mixture of gases (and some kinds of salts I think). The ballast first creates a very high voltage (a few thousand volts) that's capable of making a spark through that gas (usually xenon for the first part of the reaction to get white light right away-- that's the same gas a camera flash uses) which causes a very thin path through the gas to heat up which lowers the resistance, as long as the arc is still going, allowing the current from the ballast to continue following that path through the gas and continue heating up the gases and such inside the bulb. Once these get hot enough, they reach the plasma phase where they all are so hot and energized that they just emit tons of light.

During this stage of operation, a much lower voltage is required to keep the arc going inside the bulb so the ballast doesn't have to keep supplying all that power and it cuts it down to somewhere between 50 and 200 or so volts (I don't remember the exact voltage) instead of the few thousand volts required to strike that initial arc. Since there's no filament in there to break, if something happens that causes the bulb to lose that electrical arc (which can be a number of things, even excessive vibration potentially-- ever grab a street light pole and start shaking it? The light will go out if you get the right motion), the light goes out. But since it's ignited by a very high voltage from the ballast, turning the lights off and back on will cause them to turn back on because the ballast will create that initial high-voltage striking arc to get them going again. That will work in a pinch, but it's very hard on the ballast, so if you do it too much, you can potentially kill the ballast.

HID headlights work using much the same technology as street lights use, with one key difference. The ballast in the headlights is much more expensive because of the requirements needed in automotive use. When a streetlight gets extinguished, you'll notice it stays off for a few minutes while the gases inside cool back down so the ballast can re-strike the arc in the bulb. Obviously that's unsafe in a car, so the tricky part with adapting the technology for automotive use was to design a ballast that's capable of re-striking an arc immediately, before the gases inside the bulb have cooled back down. That's not easy to do because once the arc is lost and the gases are hot, the electrical resistance is quite a lot higher so it requires a lot more juice from the ballast to re-strike. And that added strain is why every engineer and their brother says to avoid cycling your headlights if they're HID, and why using the "turn them off and back on" trick for an extended period is capable of destroying your headlight ballasts. They're just not designed for that kind of operation day in and day out.

That might also be why some people's problem was solved by replacing just the bulbs, while others have had to replace the ballasts, and others have had to replace both. And it may also be why there doesn't seem to be any definitive answer as to which problem any one person is having.

Without a lot more data, I don't think there's any way for we forum users to be able to figure out exactly what caused someone's particular failure, because we could actually be seeing a combination of different failures as a result of some cars having bulbs or ballasts that are on just the wrong side of each other's engineering tolerances to work reliably together. I've encountered the same thing several times over the years with optical media on computers. Sometimes you find a CD or DVD that refuses to play through or read properly in one drive, but works just fine in 3 others. The disc and the problem drive are just close enough in tolerances to pass Q&A by themselves, but they both pass on opposite ends of the spectrum so by the time you put them together, their flaws combine and you've got nothing.

 

Double post >.<

 

Babybird, thanks for the excellent write-up on discharge lighting.

As a side note to your description of the discharge process, most discharge lamps contain a small amount of mercury, which improves the starting characteristics and helps generate light. The D2R bulbs used in earlier Prius are this type.

The D4R bulbs used in 2006-2009 Prius are mercury free. This makes the bulbs harder to start and reduces their working life, but is considered environmentally friendly. A special ballast is required for these bulbs. The working tolerance for this bulb-ballast combination is much tighter than with the older D2R bulbs, which is why the newer Prius HIDs tend to fail more often, and in more mysterious ways.

Tom

 

Your more the welcome... glad it all worked out for you!
These bulbs are persnickity and like qbee said all run within a very tight tolerance... that means "QA" had to be tighter too or you get these problems with bulbs working because they are right on the edge of acceptable tolerance but soon give up the ghost and start becoming problematic.

While ballast may occasionally go out just like any other electronic part, I really think the weak link here is the bulbs and tend the be the culprit when having problems.

I guess this is the risk a car manufacturer takes when using cutting edge stuff that hasn't been proven first by other manufacturers.

While Toyota has hit many home runs, I think this is a regret for them they won't repeat.

HID's provide good lighting.. but you do have these issues.

I wasn't aware of the mercury issue Qbee mentioned but that does make perfect sense why these bulbs present such crazy issues when they did hold so much promise before.

 

I actually had to join to say thanks to windstrings, your post also inspired me. Like many others I had a headlight out and like many others I was quoted a sky high price from the stealership. I purchased my 08 Prius used and out of warranty (my extended warranty doesn't cover bulbs either)

So about half an hour and a lot of sweat I was able to change the bulb with the help of my boyfriend. Yes if a girl can do it in under an hour I hope many others choose to do so as well. We got bulbs off of Amazon and fingers crossed it holds out at least through the winter. We just saved ourselves a ton of stress and money. They tried to tell me both sides would be $600 + but they would absorb some of the cost and only charge $300 since we just got the car less than 3 months ago. ALL SET! :-D

 

Good for you!... like most things in life.... its only hard till you do it!

 

Same problem on 07 pkg 6 with 114K miles. Toyota paid to replace auto leveling box last year. I paid ($225 at NW Arkansas Toyota) for a new driver side bulb last week. My lights have always been too low and need about 4 degrees up adjustment. I usually drive on high beam and never have been flashed. Are the HIDs adjustable?