Has GM overdesigned the Volt: Is a 40-mile all electric range too much?

I certainly hope not. It is not the government's role to pick technologies. Instead they should set a requirement (fuel economy) and regulations (emission laws) and allow companies the freedom to develop whatever technology they think will work best. There are many technologies to reduce fuel consumption besides hybrids.

 

Hi All,

That what would be the purpose of standing the EV1 pack up next to the Volt pack, if they were not the same energy capacity? Oh, and I typoed in my post. It should have indicated the Volt pack was LiION, of course.

 

Just to see if people will pay for the mod, with sample of one, I still think there is no market for EV conversion for the Volt.

 

And, there are many ways to reduce fuel use that aren't even technologies. City zoning, for instance, should be changed to allow more mixed use of light industrial, commercial and residential, enabling people to live closer to work. Having jobs at one end of town and houses at the other really doesn't work very well. In my city, at least, the most livable neighbourhoods are the ones that developed around the streetcar lines. Other than farms being further up the valley, pretty much everything was within walking distance. And still is, if you pick your spot carefully and create your own job like I have. A resurgence of urban farming would also reduce fuel use, and likely make us healthier at the same time. These aren't regressive steps at all; it's more like taking urban planning back from the developers and giving it to people with a broader, longer term perspective.

 

I'm not sure buy I've seen that picture. Per Wikipedia:

The Volt will have a L-ion pack that holds 16 kWh's (40 mile range)
The EV-1 with Lead Acid batteries held 18.7 kWh's (55 - 75 mile range)
The EV-1 with NiMH batteries held 26.4 kWh's (75 to 150 mile range)

 

Exceptional point. People think this because it is how we've been doing it. The status quo is the strongest force of nature that we've ever discovered.

Though a car site probably isn't the best place, this should be engraved in stone somewhere.

This is fun. I don't have to type any more. Just quote you.

Having lived with a 100 mile EV for about eight years now, I can safely say that if I had a 200 mile car, that we wouldn't ever need a gasoline car.

I don't wonder at all. It sure isn't in MY book. I don't want to have to drag all that other heavy, expensive stuff around with me everywhere I go.

Well, that ship has sailed for me. I bought a 1996 model year Rav4EV for $42,000. They were selling in perfect condition for about $7,000 when I bought my new EV. So... yes. But it wouldn't cost another $20k to make a real EV out of this thing. You are forgetting all the stuff that they wouldn't have to put in the car... and you are confusing today's cost of batteries with what we could have in a mass market. If we were serious about it.

 

well GM used the age old argument to delay putting out a decent EV and unfortunately, EVERY major car dealer has done the same thing. its back to the "all or nothing" attitude that has been the #1 pathetically lamed-assed excuse that was discounted years ago.

lets look at #'s

**if we had an PLEV that only got 10 miles and only 10% felt it would cover their needs and they used 100% of that EV range daily that would save us 10 MILLION GALLONS PER DAY

**if blah blah PLEV or EV that did 20 miles driven by 20% .... that would save us 25 MILLION GALLONS OF GAS PER DAY

**yada yada,,, 40 miles with 40% (much lower than most estimates) now we are talking more like 65 MILLION GALLONS OF GAS PER DAY

now these are rough estimates and VERY LOW BALL... but now we are reducing our gas consumption by 36.5 BILLION GALLONS A YEAR and to be honest with ya, realistic figures would probably be as much as twice that because they all really depend on what vehicle you are replacing and i am using 30 MPG... so if driving something worse than that, kick up the numbers...

right now we burn 140 billion gallons a year. even if this "niche" product was supported and distributed, it would immediately save us BILLIONS per year. granted this will take time since we pretty much have to start at day 1 to get major manufacturers in the game. sure there are some working on it, but we cannot afford this half-assed BS.

our bailout is what now??? 2.5 trillion and that is bound to go up...(no doubt in my mind about that)

well, 36.5 billion gallons equates to nearly 100 BILLION DOLLARS off our foreign oil bill and that is at today's depressed prices still using the same low ball figure....

MIT predicted DOUBLE the gas reduction by just going to hybrids... so what would PLEV's and EV's realistically save us???
MIT Scientists Say U.S. Can Halve Gas Consumption Using Hybrid Autos

 

I believe Bedrock's $20K figure was to retrofit a hybrid Volt to a pure EV.

Personally I believe GM could make a 100 mile pure EV out of the Volt for less than hybrid will cost.

To do this they would need to

ADD:
More batteries.

REMOVE:
Engine
Fuel System
Exhaust System
Cooling System
Generator
Fancy software to control SOC and integrate the ICE and EV systems.

 

+1

When you grasp how small a minority of folks it is, that drive 500 miles (or eve n HALF that distance) on a daily basis (what, maybe less than 10% ??) ... or even drive that far once a month, it's nothing short of idiotic to design an EV that will suit that minority, and making IT the standard for the other 90% ... especially considering that the days of excess are drawing to a close. Every time I hear how "I'll get an EV when it does 500 miles", I can only gasp in exhaspiration.

The U.S.A. is so far away from realizing how badly it needs a well developed rail system that when it finally DOES realize it, I wonder how far in the hole we'll be.

 

ok i have only driven near 500 miles in one day ONCE IN THE PAST 5 YEARS....

now, if we consider the amount of times i have taken a trip away from home and it totaled more than 500 miles then we are up to about 1.2 times a year (or 6 times in the past 5 years)

so either

1) i dont get out much
2) my life it boring
3) simply too broke to travel (that might be a thought if gas goes back up, and its kinda funny because most expensive trip we have taken in the recent past was to a water park resort/hotel thing that runs nearly $200 a day... but its only 25 miles from our house...)

so i polled several people at work, now still waiting for some to think on it more, but prelims....

35% average one long trip a year some close to 500 miles RT... but only about half drive, the rest fly.

30% say they pretty much never go anywhere on a regular basis and if they did it would be a very special occasion, funerals, weddings, etc.

20% say they simply struggle to pay the bills and dont go anywhere that requires additional money

the rest were ummm... well to put it bluntly, were completely unable to give me a coherent answer...


**edit**

major error ...actually did another drive that was around 350 miles all done in one day when we did a PC meet at the Diablo Dam a few years back... (2005) just remembered that one

so that make TWO trips in 5 years!!

 

The sad fact is much of North America used to have great rail systems, at least within the cities. They were bought up and shut down, part of a 'modernisation' scheme to increase auto industry profits. Firestone's slogan was 'Rails to Rubber'.

 

One of them from Windsor to Detroit would be a laugh but cheap to lay the tracks although the bridge or tunnel might be a deal breaker.

Back on topic, I have done 3 trips over 1600km each way in the last 18 months in my Prius and one 600km each way.

 

even though my prius more than QUADRUPLED my gas mileage from my previous car........i find myself wanting MORE. why not? i believe we have the technology but i also believe that money, greed and egocentricity stands in the way of progress.

i want more.

 

We've had high speed trains before, though the term is relative compared to Europe and Japan. United Aircraft built the Turbo Train used in Canada and the US starting in the late sixties. Bombardier builds trains for use all over the world, but the main problem in North America is the tracks and rights of way. France, for instance, has an entire network dedicated solely to passenger trains that's fenced off and has no grade crossings. That's not likely to happen here.

 

How much demand do you think there will be for this car ? GM should learn to walk before they try to run.

 

Yeah, there wasn't any demand for the EV1, either.

 

If done exactly as planned - who would NOT want this car? It was to be inexpensive, powerful, have exceptional gas mileage and be stylish.

It isn't all working out as planned of course - but if it had... what's not to love?

 

40 mile range is not too much! I drive 25 miles to work and 25 miles back. So I guess I could get away with a 50 mile range.. but 60 would be better.

sure there will be more charging stations in the future.. but to get people to start buying electic cars... you don't want them to worry if they will make it home on their charge.

I'd say 60 miles would be good. More of course is better.