Has GM overdesigned the Volt: Is a 40-mile all electric range too much?

I have serious misgivings about the battery swap idea. The first and biggest one is that since the battery is the huge expense of an EV right now... doing this swap thing means that you'll need to have what? 10 or 20 or 100x as many batteries as there are cars? And keep them distributed properly? Just about an impossible task. Want do know what *would* work? Fast charging through "dump chages" from a capacitor bank that is relatively slow charged 24/7. The cars can be charged very quickly. You don't need to be piping the charge current in while the car is parked there. Just have it on hand in the caps. Ah... but this is all fine tuning. There are MANY uses for 100 mile EVs today that won't cramp anybody's style.

Amen.

Or the capacitor dump charge which I think might have a chance of actually happening. You'll notice that ABP has really backed off the battery swap idea of late. Really, this just can't work. Great concept... but how pays for, and how do we make and distribute way more battery packs than cars?

 

I think 40 mile all electric is just about perfect. This would allow for most people to get done what they need to get done in a day without having to worry about recharging. As for those of us with longer daily commutes (like me with 28 miles each way), well hopefully we could charge at work - in which case this car covers up to an 80 mile R/T commute as well. If this car comes up as advertised, I will probably buy my first GM car ever (unless Tesla's S Sedan is also about to be released).

 

I wonder why people are still thinking that the ideal solution for traveling 500 miles in a day is a car. It really sucks and there are much better and faster ways to get were you are going. After traveling in Europe on their excellent rail system I now realize that driving is a horrible way to travel long distances. Who want to spend hours staring at the road and concentrating on driving. On the train you can eat, read, watch TV, sleep, etc and still get were you are going faster than driving.

The US needs to wake up and realize that the car no longer equals freedom.

 

so in the past year, how many times have you taken a trip?

 

Rail is a wonderful way to go. Even in Canada, where the passenger trains are of 1954 vintage. I haven't been to Europe, but I hear the trains actually run on schedule, and rival airlines for city to city travel times.

 

to be honest with ya, all those drawbacks for an EV is valid, but still its cherrypicking. sure for that trip you take with the family 3-5 times a year, the EV wont work... but what about your daily needs...so what the score

daily: yes, 600 (sure multiple trips in a day!@!)
longer trips:no 10 ...

ok so score is 600 to 10....well that is not acceptable is it now~!~!... need to get that percentage to acceptable levels. but how?? heck lets face it, it all boils down to money. make EV's so cheap that no one would say no. cheap enough to make it a spare car and make gas so expensive that that spare car is used for every possible trip it can do

battery swapping is something that is being pushed and pushed hard and for niche situations, i can see it working. huge park and rides in satellite locations with an array of EV's sitting there where you only need use your NEV to get there. park then jump into highway capable EV to commute to work where you plug in. the leasing for this option will be much cheaper than paying $6 a gallon for gas (which of course includes a $2 per gallon gas tax to pay for EV program. then again $7 gas is ok...kick that tax to THREE BUCKS YA!!)

a huge automated computer network where you plan your trips and post into the database so a battery with your name on it is reserved for you. since you are leasing, there is no issue with getting lemon battery (naturally monitoring systems will be in place to provide early detection of any possible failure with additional batteries stored at various small wind and solar farms in the more desolate areas)

but leasing is another hurdle to overcome,heck do you like leasing?? i dont. i BUY!! period, but i have money (with careful planning, working OT and skrimping that is!!) so it will only be an option probably geared towards lower income people who cant really afford one car much less two (ya know, the ones who circulate thru the court systems for no insurance tickets?? cmon, we all know a few of em!!)

but one thing is for certain, EV's will be here and fast if we only make it happen. that was proven in the 90's and it can be done today only with much better results. just start writing the laws...

lets face it.. (ya this AGAIN!!) GM does not provide green tech because it does not know how, it doesnt because it simply has decided not to

 

as far as driving, well maybe i getting old. but when i was younger i used to enjoy road trips, driving for hours and hours just to see different places. but last summer on trip up Oregon Coast, great drive, scenery but if it wasnt for those stops we took every hour or two, i would have been pretty tired of driving and i only did about half the driving!!

but we have a choice, change what we do or suffer the consequences of our actions

 

It is the same logic that people use to justify driving a full-size, crew-cab pickup as a commuting vehicle. Yes, 99% of the time they are just driving back and forth to work or taking the kids to soccer, etc, etc. BUT, what about that 1% of the time they need a truck. They might buy some plywood at Lowes or move a kid to college.

We got rid of our truck back in 2002. Since then I have needed a truck 4 times. Once I borrowed a friend's, twice I rented from Enterprise, and once I just paid the store to deliver the item. Not owning a truck has cost me ~$150 for rentals and delivery fees in 6 years. On the other hand not owning a truck has saved me $14,000 in fuel.

If we had a 100 mile EV my wife and I would need to rent a car about 10 times a year.

 

lol,,, we TRIED to get rid of ours and could not sell it. so now its shared among 3 households and does get used about twice a month for trips to dump and that is where its stored. other than that, its been used by us 5 times in 4 years twice to move.... so ya, it is definitely something i cannot live without


hehehe... (had to throw that in there because some will think i was serious on that last line)

 

The one thing that will happen is an auto connect EV recharger in the garage. Once that is in operation, EVs will be so insanely easy to use. My worry is that the first "family" EVs (one the wife can use without worry) will be very hard to come by for some time....because of the long waiting lists.

 

Hi All,

Have not read through all this, forgive me if this is a Dupe. I remember the Battery Show-and-Tell GM did. They stood up the 16 KWH NiMH battery from the EV1 against the much smaller LiIon one from the Volt.

One has to wonder if having an engine is worth knocking your EV range from 120 miles (EV1 with NiMH) to 40 (Volt with smaller, lighter NiMH) ?

 

I believe the the NiMH battery in the EV-1 was 26 kWh to get the 120 mile range. Your point though is the same. I would prefer a simple pure EV Volt which should cost less than the proposed series hybrid GM intends to bring to market. As I said above, a EV with even a 100 mile range would be more than adequate for my families needs.


GM marketing believes that they can't sell a car with a range of 120 miles.

 

They seem to think so although I have serious concerns as to wether or not the Volt will ever reach production.
Personally, if I can get an all electric vehicle (such as a modified RAV4) before then, that will be my first choice.

 

Perhaps they will consider two options for the Volt - one as a REEV with the ICE and one as pure electric with a larger battery and perhaps a little more powerful electric motor. It seems to me (from a very layman's engineering perspective) that these two versions could be identical except for the drive train components.

 

They could and they wouldn't even have to change the electric motor. (The Volt design is a series hybrid so the electric motor is responsible for 100% of the power)

I doubt they would offer the volt as an EV though. GM has spent years hyping the fact that the Volt is an electric car without the range limitations of electric cars. I can't see them trying to undo all that marketing effort.

Toyota has a similar reluctance to PHEV. When the Prius first came out they spent marketing dollars promoting that you didn't have to plug it in. Now people want to plug in but Toyota is resisting.

 

Because of global warming, the government is going to force a switch to hybrids. The caveat is the Saudis are talking about low carbon emissions oil--recall seeing that on TV. They aren't going to give up the oil business easily. With hybrids, the key is to get the price down with economies to scale--i.e., big volume. That way, pricing can be competitive with ICE vehicles. The government can force the big volume--which is probably what will be needed. They have leverage with the bailout help, and with tax or rebate incentives. The government could actually push American car companies into a favorable competitive position with such leverage.

 

Are you willing to put another $20K to make it a pure EV?