Has anyone installed the enginer PHEV?

I'm sure I have one of the new converters and it's still doing its thing for 3 weeks now. I can't drive as long as I like in pure EV mode, but I can drive for a while that way, even after accelerating slowly from a crawl or even if there is a slight incline.

But I'm always wishing for more, as I think the batteries can take. Still my converter can supply enough juice that about 60-70% of our driving is pure EV on non-highway roads.

I wish the car wouldn't kick me out of EV mode at 54 km/hr. Even 60 km/hr would be much more useful as a cut off.

 

Unfortunately that is a limitation of an auxiliary battery pack style conversion. To get more EV range/power/time you'll either need a much beefier DC/DC converter (which get significantly more expensive the beefier they get--the Enginer one I believe can only transfer about 10 amps which is just barely enough to power the headlights and air conditioning) or you need a battery replacement conversion.

Just remember that if you do get a beefier DC/DC converter make sure the batteries are rated for the current discharge. Just because you are charging the OEM battery at 10 amps doesn't mean you are discharging the auxiliary batteries at 10 amps (its more like 45 amps on the auxiliary side--though this figure of course depends on the voltage on both sides).

From experience, the low cost batteries being used by systems like the Enginer system are designed to be cheap not powerful. Drawing too much current from a battery like the Thundersky or Mottcell batteries can significantly reduce lifespan.

Andrew

 

Enginer is running Christmas sales $500 and $1200 off for 2KWH and 4KWH respectively for next two months while supply lasts. Please visit Enginer | Prius Plugin PHEV Conversion Kit with Lithium-Ion | Hybrid for details.

 

...... I just felt like... I was robbed.

Now I'm going to bed raging.

 

Yeah that stings. GRRR!

 

Looks like lots of folks are having problems with this system, when will it be plug and play so us non-tech folks can get them?

 

A few things to consider:

Does your PHEV battery box have an external fan to pull out hot air?

Is your DC/DC converter one of the newer versions? (Inline 20A fuse, 2 pin Molex connector) on the output side?

Do you have large hills that you drive down and forget to turn off the PHEV switch?

All of these things can be attributed to the demise of your two DC/DC converters.. Or, you could be like me with a bunch of duds in the get go

After replacing my DC/DC converter a few times, I've had no problems to report.. I charge 2 times a day and I've been using it since mid August..

I recommend you take it into an authorized installer to take a look at it.

 

OK, if not always 100% accurate, (somebody previously pointed out it is 12 amps not 10 amps), Andrew is definitely relentless in his criticism of the Enginer kit and also throws the occasional jab at any non-PICC kits too. I wonder why. Does Andrew have some financial connection to Plug-In Conversion Corporation? If so, why hasn’t that been more prominently mentioned in a disclaimer? Is he related to somebody in the company? Maybe that skews his perspective?

Because on a dollar to dollar cost basis, the PICC (6.1 kwh) is the highest per kwh of battery pack capacity, around $2200 if the charges from Luscious Garage are correct. Hymotion (5kwh) is about $2080, Plug-In Supply is about $1700 for the 5kwh kit and the 10kw kit at just $1250, and Enginer is about $700 (“Christmas Pricing†and only 4kwh of battery pack).

All the conversion kits, with the exception of the Enginer kit, will dramatically boost the mileage and allow long stretches of EV driving. Enginer has come up with “blended driving,†which at drives of 20 miles and more begins to catch up to the more expensive kits. And of course, once each kits’ pack is depleted, the benefits stop and it is just a regular Prius again. So which kit is the best for an individual depends on their situation, and the Enginer kit does have a definite market niche. Is it the absolute best kit? I can’t say, I don’t know how long the batteries will last, or any of the other components either.

But I would like Andrew to document, since he has stated that Thundersky batteries are “cheap,†what batteries provide a higher sustained discharge rate, and what the price of those batteries are. And then show why those higher priced and supposedly better batteries are necessary to the Enginer kit.

 

Wow. I meant no hostility in my previous posts, nor am I at all suggesting that the PICC conversion is the best one for everyone. As you mentioned, yes it does cost more which can be prohibitive for people who don't have that kind of cash to spend on a conversion.

I still stand by my previous assessments that the Enginer conversion system does not provide the kind of power it is being made out to--I'm simply trying to put some perspective on the figures people are throwing around (which, correct me if I'm wrong, but perspective is always a good thing).

As for the batteries comment, I am not suggesting that the Enginer system switch batteries. Unless it goes with a bigger DC/DC converter it probably doesn't make sense to have stronger batteries like the K2 Energy cells for example. All I was saying is that with the current batteries being used there is really no room to improve current transfer without damaging the batteries. Now, if you have a 4kwhr system you may be able to increase the load a bit since you have two packs, but for people who have the 2kwhr pack--which is what I was assuming earlier--you're basically at the factory recommended limits which tend to be...slightly exaggerated to make the product look better. I wouldn't get much closer to them.

If you really want me to document my findings, I can share the battery profile of the thundersky cell I analyzed which shows a pretty high internal resistance for the cell. Typically the cheaper cells tend to have a higher internal resistance which limits the amount of current that the battery can put out and increases energy loss due to heat.

As for the DC/DC converter comment--seriously? There really is no realistic difference between 10 and 12 amps since that limit floats quite a bit depending on the state of charge of both batteries...I think we're just squabbling over details here...

I'm trying to realistic in my comments (which are hopefully helpful to some). I believe these are issues people need to hear about before purchasing said system. If you feel I have overstepped my bounds then forgive me, though I stand by my previous comments. I'm not trying to persuade anyone to buy the PICC conversion, I'm simply offering it as a point of comparison.

Andrew

 

I think it is important for this kit to mature and continue to improve while keeping the same price. Jack can use all the support he can get.

I also think / hope the price come down for the other plugin solution as well and continue improving.

 

I think we all hope for that =). I'm sure as the demand for this technology increases the cost will come down.

Andrew

 

my name is Joel, and I'm a relative newcomer to this forum. I bought a 2009 Prius back in February and since then have gotten so much useful information from these forums (thanks so much!) Anyway, I just got a job offer that's about 70 miles away, and even carpooling a bit I'm still going to have a horrible commute, so I've decided to buy an Enginer 4KWH kit (possibly 6KWH). As I'm only somewhat technical, I don't have the engineering (no pun intended) skills to install the system myself, nor take full advantage of hypermiling by flicking switches at just the right moment or reading various guages (yet). I'm going to start off being more the just charge-up-and-drive kind of guy. However, I had a few questions for anyone who currently has one of these systems:

1) How accessible is the spare tire, REALLY? (Aside from marketing talk, could my wife reasonably get to it if stranded)?
2) Based on folks experience, would 4KWH get me all the way to work, assuming that the drive is about 80% freeway, pretty flat roads, Ohio climate, average speeds of 45-55 mph on surface streets and 65 mph freeway, and moderate to weak usage of pulse and glide techniques or other Prius-maximizing driving styles? In other words, how have folks done in terms of real-world, mostly average long-distance driving? (I have some idea of this, reading the other threads in this forum, but any summaries would be helpful). Should I be realistically looking more at the 6KWH?
3) Once the PHEV batteries are depleted, is anyone noticing a substantial drop in fuel economy (compared to normal Prius operation) due to the added weight of the batteries?
4) Is the consensus that Toyota's warranty will be honored, or is it really a gamble. I've heard that there's legal "precedent," but how does that translate into practice?

I apologize if these have been covered in other threads. As a practical matter, I'm actually most concerned about the spare tire and warranty issues. Other than that, I'm sure I'll be happy with my new PHEV!!

Thanks,

-Joel

 

Welcome Joel.

1. Not very...no.
2. I have a 2kwh unit. My commute is ~38 miles round-trip...about 11 miles of that is Freeway @55-60mph with the rest being surface streets between 30-45 mph. I do extensive, but modified hipermileing when possible. For the Enginer pack, your glide should use as much EV as possible. However, keep an eye on the SOC and try to keep it >55% if you can. The Enginer pack is not designed to power the car in EV mode, rather, it is designed to assist or 'trickle charge' the Prius pack. At the end of my commute I still have a lot of battery left over.
3. I've never actually depleted my pack...don't know.
4. Toyota must PROVE that the added pack caused any failure. You're probably safe (Knock on wood).

Based on my experience, you can expect a 5-10% improvement in mpg using the pack. It is more useful for long-distance trips than short or medium range trips. I would consider my commute a medium range trip. Before getting the Enginer pack, I was getting mid-to-upper 50s mpg. After it was installed I've been getting mid-to-upper 60s mpg. However, cold weather is here and I'm seeing my mpg drop to low 60s.

 

Joel,

1. No, the spare is not accessible.
2. My workplace is 67 miles from home, about 90 minutes each way. My 8kWh pack lasts for about 130 minutes. 4kwh will last about an hour.
3. The added weight costs about 1 MPG when depleted.
4. No idea.

 

Interesting...Can you tell me more about why the spare tire is not accessible? Is it just that the battery enclosure is just too heavy to easily lift? I mean, could someone who's relatively strong do it, or are you saying that it's basically just unusable? (I know getting to the spare is a relatively rare need, but it's disappointing if Enginer is marketing this thing inaccurately. They claim on the website that it's no more difficult to change the tire with or without the kit installed. If this claim is not accurate, I'm wondering what else may not be accurate?)

 

The spare tire is accessible, if you can lift the battery box out of the way. 120 lb for 2kwh or 180 lb for 4kwh. So for me, yes it is accessible and the claim is accurate. For my wife, no it is not accessible.

 

Got it, thanks. Has anyone tried to retrofit a spring or something that might help? (I think I remember reading somewhere that Jack was planning this on a future version?)

 

I had my rear springs replaced for my previous PHEV conversion using the 350 lbs Plug-in Supply PbA kit.. Well, I left it there The kit was replaced with 6kWh worth of batteries..

 

Upon his question, I'm understanding that jdev is referring to hinged hydraulic lifters to support the weight of the battery container in upright position to get access to the spare tire in case of need.

 

Oh, my bad.. Doubt it's going to happen, though...