Has anyone installed the enginer PHEV?

Yup, to do as I'm suggesting you would have to hook it up as in the cal-cars configuration. This would make it more like Manzanita Micro's PiPrius, basically a Cal-Cars with a dc:dc converter. As I recall Manzanita's dynamically sets the converter output instead of using a contactor like the traditional Cal-Cars. Of course last time I checked the Manzanita dc:dc converter costs ~$2500 on its own.

 

The Pi-Prius conversion it is not based on the Cal-Cars design, but both are using Hybrid Interface's CAN-view equipment as a controller/status monitor. The Enginer Co took the same concept approach for their system operation but with off the shelf Chinese components. It is not a new development but works, so far...............
The ManzanitaMicro PFC-40 HM, the one used in the Pi-Prius set-up, is only $3200.00 plus...., but this is a real AC-DC/DC charger/converter.

 

It seems like it should work for other hybrids as well.

I am currently working a system in my gen 1 Honda Insight. My Insight is already modified so I can manually control the assist/regen. With the Enginer system, I will be able to greatly increase my use of battery power.

 

I understand what you are saying, but they are still very similar as I understand them. Granted my knowledge of the PiPrius is limited. Both were as I recall based on the fundamental technique of SOC drift using a paralleled secondary pack. Both "turn on and off" the secondary pack by using the CAN-View controller to monitor can data, and use more or less the same turn-on turn-off algorithms (I think). The only real difference was how the secondary pack was connected. In the simpler cal-cars case its just through contactors, while PiPrius used the dc:dc converter. Granted that is a significant difference of implementation, but basically just two different ways of accomplishing the same thing (ie triggering SOC drift and dragging the battery reported SOC around). As I understood Rich and Ron actually collaborated quite a bit in the early days of the cal-cars project.

While this kit also uses a dc:dc converter, it seemed like it was not based on SOC drift as the charge current comes in through the current sensor. That would make it a fundamentally different method. I'm not clear how they don't get into trouble with mismatching currents at the various current sensors, but I do seem to recall some people having success doing so as long as the current were pretty small. I haven't had time to go back and read this thread since the early days, so I'm still fuzzy on a number of its details.

What I think would be interesting is to use the cheap components in this kit to do what I believe Rich did in the PiPrius, an SOC drift based conversion with CAN data based switching (or even better CAN spoofing as cal-cars/plugin-supply now does). By maintaining SOC (or at least perceived SOC) in the ideal range around 74% I would think the effectiveness of this kit could be increased. It may be that the dc:dc converter output current is still too small to get Hymotion/Cal-cars kind of numbers out of it. On the other hand once you are SOC drift based, you don't have to keep the current small to stay out of trouble with the HV controller. These dc:dc converters seem pretty cheap and many are modular, it may be that the output could be increased without much cost increase.

From what I have seen the mileage numbers from this kit don't rival more expensive kits, but are respectable given how cheap this kit is. What I find intriguing is the thought that for an extra $600-1000 you might have a kit that would be competitive with the high end kits at half or less the cost.

Rob

 

This is the real success of this conversion equipment, the price... but time will tell how successful it will be. By all means, this is an slap in the face to many automakers.
Rob, as you know, with this kit there's not batt SOC spoofing involved, the Enginer Kit is dumping 240VDC at low current (top 12Amps) to the stock NiMH, like if it were regen juice, keeping the stock batteries at higher state of charge.

 

Hey Boss,

My balancers don't stop beeping whatsoever. Both of them are defective. I get readings of 3.99H, 4.5vH, and even 5vH. It's crazy. Further, it sems that your the only one left with a working unit. Ttyl.

 

Hey,

Who here still has a working 2kw unit? Mine is now broken. Converter and balancers are inoperable. What is the solution for keeping the converter kool? And I, like many regular people, don't want to engineer a coolant system. This kit is too much of a "do it yourself" project. Regular folks, which will ultimately make this kit take off, do not have the time for something like this. I wish I've would of known about all this before I purchased the kit. I am going to give it one more shot when I get a new converter, hopefully the redesigned one, and a set of balancers--they need to redesign that thing, too. Peace.

 

I had the 2kw for about 2 weeks and it worked fine. Yesterday we upgraded to the 4kw system. I haven't any problems with mine. I am sorry to hear yours is broken. After seeing my kit installed first hand, I am glad I paid someone professional to do it. It has saved me big time.

You definately need to have some Electrical and Mechanical knowhow to figure it out. I have been very impressed with how customer friendly Jack is about sending replacement parts. He certainly wont "leave you hanging". He stands by his warranty. Make sure to stay in touch with him and don't give up. When your Enginer PHEV kit works like it is supposed to, you will love it. Do you have a local mechanic you can trust to work out the bugs with you?

Good Luck,

JOANNA

 

Have you measured the voltage of each cell with a voltmeter? Have you unplugged the balncers and plugged them back in?

I have 4 good ones, still waiting for another 4 on back order.

 

its really a shame that balancing is even necessary, especially to this degree. the availability of larger format batteries in ALL chemistries would eliminate a lot of the current issues EV face now.

 

As long as you need 2+ cells, balancing the cells will be an issue. I think the balancing issues that people are seeing has more to do with the limitations of the supplied balancer as well as lack of understanding of how the kit works more than anything - only being able to drain off excess charge at 0.3a is a limitation - especially when the pack is new and hasn't been balanced yet. If the packs were balanced before shipping, I suspect that there would be a lot less issues.

The LiFe cells used in the Enginer kit are already pretty large compared to other cells. Just look at how many are used in the stock Prius pack - 28 prismatic modules of 7.2v - and each module has 6 1.2v cells for a total of 202 cells and a capacity of ~1.5 kWh.

Compare this to the 8 LiFe prismatic cells for 2 kWh. Pretty huge reduction in the number of cells.

 

I wouldn't mind being the first European to test the Enginer 2 kW kit. Especially if I can get the 500 dollar discount. But there’s one important issue: will it void my warranty? I still have the factory warranty (another 6 years and 30K miles to go) and an extra 1 year from the dealer.

According to my dealer no modifications to the engine are allowed. But is this an add-on or a modification? And if I get problems with the HV battery for example. Will they ever find out if I remove the kit before taking it to the dealer?

Anybody any idea?

Floyd

 

If they went under your car I suspect they would see 4 mounting holes that aren't there in a "un-modded" Prius. I don't know that you could cover that enought that some one walking under the car on a lift wouldn't notice it pretty readily.

I would think that any problems you had with the car after the kit is installed would be "new territory". The first 1 or 2 people to lock horns with Toyota Inc. will have the hardest time. Once policy and presidence is set, it should get (hopefully) much easier to navigate those waters.

That said. If I won a 50% off Enginer.us coupon in the mail, I'd be all over this kit like nobodies business! For now, I'll keep dreaming.

11011011

 

I wish that were the case. Unfortunately balancing is pretty unavoidable. Even lead acid EV packs require balancing, which are often just a single string of large batteries. A common configuration is 144V, or 12 * 12V lead acid batteries, often in the range of 40-90Ah. Each lead acid battery has 6 cells inside, for a total of 72 cells in series. Due to the unfortunate reality of manufacturing variation, these cells are not identical and will wander over time. If you don't balance them, eventually your weak cells will get reversed, and destroy not only the cell but usually the entire pack. The mismatch in performance of a new battery often makes it impractical to swap out a single battery to save the pack. Because flooded lead acid are so tolerant of over-charging, most EVers simply run a balancing charge every month or so, which basically consists of charging for a longer than usual period of time sometimes at a higher than normal voltage. The stronger cells reach full charge first and start outgassing. Eventually all the cells get up to full, the water lost during outgassing is replaced in all the cells, and you have a fully charged, balanced pack ready for action. This trick stopped working when people started using sealed AGM type lead acid. Their performance/density is often much better, but they can not tolerate overcharging like flooded batteries can largely because you can't replace the water thats lost. For that reason, many using lead-acid AGMs have had to add balancers and/or full BMSes to their EV packs. Those that haven't have often found the lifespan of their AGMs to be very disappointing. Personally I think a lot of the disappointment of the cal-cars lead acid conversions was related to not maintaining a balanced pack compounded by over discharging.

 

I think that you'r not presenting the numbers straight;
Generation 1 Prius (2001-03) has 38 NiMH modules for a total of 274VDC.
Generation 2 and 3 Prius (2004 until today days) has 28 NiMH modules for a total 202VCD for a 1.5KW of storaged power.
Each NiMH module is factory built with 6 cells of 1.2 VDC overall.
Toyota provides in its Prius lines a very sofisticated and advanced Battery Management System for witch, in conjuction of their NiMH batteries, will warrant their life for up to 10 years of constant use and some times abuse but NOT missuse.
The Enginer Kit is built with LiFePO4 chemistry, for a 2 KW added power, 16 cells of 3.2 VDC for a total of 52 VDC @40AH (-/+ 2 KW of storaged power) and an economic battery balancer of the R/C line of business. It does carry only 1 (?) year warranty with a lot of equipment exchanges.

 

So far I have received 6kwh of cells, 48 total. The cell voltage ranged from 3.300 to 3.308V. I'd say that they were balanced before shipping.

As I have said before, the people with 2kwh kits will have more problems because they charge and discharge twice as fast as with the 4kwh kits. The balancers don't seem to be able to keep up. They are twice as likely to keep up with the 4kwh kit.

 

not arguing that point. but we are looking at not balancing a handful of batteries here. granted their should be modules which prevent replacing the entire pack if something goes wrong so sure, 6-8 is fine.

but that is not what we are looking at here. this system STARTS at 8 and escalates from there.

but that is not the system designer's fault. its just patent limitations. ones that seriously need review.

 

Whoops, thanks. Got them mixed up.

All I was saying was that you can get Lithium cells that are a LOT larger than the puny cells/modules used in the Prius NiMH back.

BTW - if you can point me to more information on how the Prius manages it's cells, it'd be appreciated - I always thought it left a bit of capacity on the table as it couldn't balance the pack at the module level and relied on the durability/tolerance of the NiMH cells to accept some amount of over charge/discharge and Lithium based cells do NOT handle ANY over charge/discharge at all, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

There are no patent limitations with regards to Lithium based battery cell size - only NiMH batteries in a Prismatic configuration.

Thanks - that's good to know.

Definitely agree that if the balancer was a bit more capable people would not run into issues with cell balance as often.

 

Here is a link to a Wiki on the Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act in the U.S. I'm not sure if there is anything similar in Europe.

My understanding is that unless it can be shown that the aftermarket mod was responsible for the failure, the dealer can not refuse to honor the warranty.

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer. )

 

I know you've eluded earlier as to how you were going to hook those up but could you go back over it. I thought at one point you were going to make 3 x 2KW kits and hook all converters up to the bus to try to dump 36A of current down. After learning a bit more about it, I would think that hooking all three packs in parallel behind the converter would be safer. It still only provides 12A but it provides it 3 times as long. I suspect this may have been your intent.

2 Year Warranty, but your point is made. It's not 8 yr 100,000 mile like the NiMh Pack.

I'd start at the Prius PHEV EAA-PHEV site. I'm currently gathering data from there for some stuff I'm working on currently. Lots of links to lots of links. Follow the rabbit hole.

True, BUT the 2010 Prius was Engineered in 2004. The 2009 Prius was Engineered in 1999. The 2001 Prius was Engineered in 1997. From 1997 to 2004 there hasn't been sufficiently mature and CHEAP Lithium technology available. The Patents really did (in my opinion) lock Toyota out of making a PHEV, BEV, or larger capacity HEV in the last 10 years.

11011011