GM: Yes, the Volt's gas engine can power the wheels

That's definitely not the answer GM wants to hear.

I don't think GM will sell many of these.  Basically everyone who wanted a hybrid already owns a Prius.  And even if that's not fully true, the Leaf will kill the Volt.  Don't forget the Prius and Prius family and Prius PHV aren't going anywhere.  Honestly the only person I can see driving the Volt is Jay Leno.  Woeful days for GM ahead....

 

apparently they even triggered it during sporty driving

 

Heh... Wow. I didn't mean for it to come across that way. GM's success or lack of with the Volt won't be based upon my choices and buying habits.

I'm just in wary of buying 1st model year vehicles as they tend to have more problems until the initial bugs are worked out and this is across all makes. Consumer Reports has found this to be true and I've seen the types of troubles the 03 (first model year) 350Z had, many of which were resolved by the 04 model year.

Some first model year vehicles, esp. those from GM and a couple Nissans can be spectacularly bad. If I had to buy first model year, I'd have more confidence in Toyota and Honda.

 

Update:

Journalists get 49 - 54 miles EV range driving the Volt at media launch event.

GM Volt First Open Road Test: 49 Miles of EV Range

 

Actually I don't read C&D at all unless someone posts a link in one of the forums. I tried to read one while getting a hair cut and it was forgettable.

Normally, "back of the envelope" means a rough order of magnitude calculation. So I'm not terribly worried unless the numbers returned sound 'too good.' So let's see:

41 miles < 56-62 miles :: Volt burns less gas, we agree
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As for how much less, that is well beyond my back of the envelope. If your model shows an "n" gallon weekly fuel savings, good on you! I'm more likely to go with: http://www.enginer.us/ The price-performance numbers are too good for someone who already owns two Prius.

Just to make it clear, I used 51 MPG for the Prius because that is also pretty close to the 52 MPG I'm getting and not far from the 49 MPG of 107 vehicles reported at the EPA web site. Any number between 49-52 would be perfectly fine with me. In contrast, "Green Human," C&D or Consumer Reports claiming Prius mileage in the lower 40s always reminds me of Top Gear getting 17 MPG in an NHW20 and a smile.

I'm looking forward to a repeat of the Edmunds: Fuel Sipper Smackdown 2: Which Car Gets the Best Fuel Economy? This remains one of the more credible, 'head-to-head' comparisons in print. Hopefully Edmunds will replace the Mini Cooper with the Volt and run 'Smackdown 3.'

Bob Wilson

 

Does GM own or have shares in Transmission manufacturers?

 

They drove around 45 mph. If Prius were to drive at that speed, it would get around 75 MPG (50% more than EPA estimate).

So "EPA equivalent" EV range should be 33-36 miles.

 

An engineer driving a Volt test mule I got to talk to a while back said he was getting 40-50 miles out of the battery. Whatever. The plug-in prius only does 15. Again: whatever.

I don't get why you people are so worked up about all this like "ZOMFG the engine can power the wheels!"

 

Sure. Was just pointing out that the prius would also consume much more gas in your heavy footed gas scenario.

For personal numbers, I'll probably use about 300 gallons of gas this year in the prius. In the volt this would be around 60. Most weeks I would use no gasoline in the volt at all. But I am probably changing jobs to an office downtown. This drops my commute to 4 miles each way, and since the building has a shower, these may be biking miles so no gas used.

The question is not if the prius would also do better, but if you have these driving conditions whether you would use any gas at all on your commute with a volt.

 

Voltards were making a big deal that the gas engine did not power the wheels. It was pitched as more advanced than Prius because it was pure electric.

They were able to greenwash some people into thinking that it was wrong for a hybrid to use both powertrains! Their sale pitch was that the PHV Prius' gas engine comes on when you floor it. Well, duh! It is a hybrid. It blends the power from both powertrains. It is not normal for a hybrid (Volt) to use one power source after another.

It turned out that Volt is a series-parallel hybrid. Prius owners have been pointing it out for the past 6 months. Whoever that said anything that didn't fit their belief was labeled as "trolls". The Voltbots down rate those facts to hide them from view. Some are still denying the gas engine does drive the wheels. Some are now saying "so what?" it is more efficient - eventhough 36 MPG falls far short of Prius' 50 MPG.

The plug disguised the Volt as an electric car. The "wolf under sheep skin" cover has been blown and it is their turn to take the heat. I am not going to fan the fire or help put it out. I am just going to sit and watch. opcorn::tea:

 

In the morning, I listen to the podcast of "Autoline Daily" and they noted 'the blogosphere was in a tizzie' about the direct drive and I too thought, "So what?"

GM still hasn't sold a Volt yet and are barely selling two-modes. But it will take them at least another year or two to get far enough up the learning curve to make the next model(s). At least they've stop (or appear to have stopped) kicking sand in our faces.

My favorite term is "reality training" and that is exactly what the GM hybrid/EV advocates are about to step into . . . and good on them. Welcome to the gas miser club and just realize the enemy are not other hybrids or EVs or efficient vehicles. It is that F-150 or Silverado commuting pickup truck barely getting 15 MPG. You know 30 MPG should be the floor mileage.

Bob Wilson

 

I was just pointing out how that condition relate to the EPA testing condition so we can compare.

That question of using gas or not has a green-washing element to it. Either you use gas or not, you are still using energy. Not using gas can be implied as you are not polluting. Even more deceiving, assumptions were made as if electricity came out of thin air. Of course, electricity comes from Coal, nuclear, oil, gas or renewable source.

The real question should be how much emission does it produce to drive the distance. On average (all US states) the emission released from generating electricity to power the Volt for 40 miles is higher than a standard Prius.

Take Austin, TX as an example. Electricity there (Zip: 73301) came from 47.5% Gas and 37.1% Coal. In another word, 85% fossil fuel.

 

According to MT, 75-127 MPG:

127 MPG: This Volt Story Must Be Told | Car News Blog at Motor Trend

 

We can agree that there should be standardized testing. For EV and HV it would be informative if they included short range tests and tests at higher speed as well as brake out tests with heavy heat or AC.

I don't think anyone is confused here about using gas versus electricity,and that electricity has to come from somewhere. It seems to me the distortions come greatest when their is an appeal to just CO2. I am much happier knowing my fees for electricity are building windmills in west texas, than being shipped off to an unfriendly foreign country. Moving the emissions away from the city also will help have fewer ozone action days here. Spending less for the fuel and more for the car also appeals to me especially when the fuel is a scarce resource and getting more expensive.

I don't buy that emissions figure for the volt over its lifetime, but that has been discussed before. You did make me look at your source since the numbers seemed so skewed from the actual grid I'm plugged into. The site gives you back figures for the entire texas grid when you put in my zip, and those figures are from 5 years ago, the grid is greener now. Here in Austin almost 40% of the power today comes from sources that produce no air pollution. By 2020 the figure will be well over 50%. An ev or phev will get greener as the grid greens.

 

Poor Consumer Reports already previewed the Volt as an electric car that uses gas engine only to charge battery, not to turn the wheels.

 

Write them and they can say "we made a small mistake talking about the volt and wanted to add this to our preview. If you run the batteries down, and are in CS mode and your going down the highway at speeds over 70 mph the Gas engine will connect directly to the power train and help drive the wheels".

Or maybe they will follow most people thoughts in this thread and say " GM is a fraud the Volt in nothing like a ev car, because of the small chance you the gas engine may help directly drive the wheels in a certin but highly unlikly situations for some. It's junk, GM needs to die. Buy a Prius instead because it has always drove the wheels with gas and Toyota is a Honest!!"

 

I agree. Personally, I am under-whelmed with studies that make an effort to justify the Volt's limited EV range with average commute stats. Even if you did only commute 15 miles each way a day, how many can afford a $41K commuter car? And one car families are going to want to take a vacation once in a while.

I just returned from a 7500 miles trip in my 2010 Prius. Overall, 52.5 mpg; comfortable; quiet, convenient. I could not have been more satisfied. Even the NAV system worked well. Books on mpg3 disk are fantastic.

500 miles between fill-up provided much more distance than my system could wait for a relief station. It was a most delightful experience.

 

If you think the trillion dollar spent on wars, gulf oil spills, the millions killed in ME wars and peak oil - have no connection whatsoever to "using gas" - you are right.

 

We import 40-50% of the oil we consume. We import the most from Canada (#1) and Mexico (#2). We can become oil independence simply by reducing consumption.

If you don't use oil, you are still using energy from another fossil fuel. All the fossil fuel have something in common, carbon footprint. We need to look at the results, not what drives the wheels. Volt produces more greenhouse gas (all the US states averaged) than a standard Prius (very efficient gas burner).

Even if the electric grid become cleaner overnight and the Volt end up with the same carbon footprint as the Prius, we are still subsidizing $7,500 to the Volt and $0 to the Prius.

I am not against eliminating oil usage. I just don't think now is the time. Now is the time to reduce. Oil won't run out overnight. It will just get more and more expensive to drill.

 

Heck, that's better than what THIS promo is indicating:






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