GM: Yes, the Volt's gas engine can power the wheels

Most of the car companies took more money for the hydrogen cars that still seem decades away. Its not a short memory, it is that these politicians are bought and paid for.

The money going for PHEV and EV cars is approximately $10B in grants, credits, and loans. Most of the money is being wasted, but there it is also paying for future choices with the Leaf, focus EV and PHEV, volt, phv prius, sonata phev, etc. This seems to be a better government waste, abuse, and corruption that the corn ethanol subsidy or AIG bail out.

 

It is funny how all of you are so sure that changing this design specification makes the car worse. Im guessing that the whole series hybrid thing just did not work out that well. However, it is strange that the engine can only drive the wheels above 70mph?

 

Winston, the latest I read was that the control logic allows the ICE to come on at speeds as low as 35 mph in CS mode. Makes sense to me from an engineering standpoint.

So, do I understand correctly that a G/M *always* is in between the ICE and the PSD ? If so I have to say that the grumblings about the design having a direct mechanical connection are mis-informed. It would just mean that all the power flow does not go through the battery and the main traction motor.

Addendum: is this right ? (the connections to the PSD should not be read to infer which gear is linked to which component)

Code:

                                                  ------------------------------
                                                  |                             |
ICE ------ // ------ G ------ // ------ M --//-- PSD --- Wheels                 |
                              |                                                 |
                              -------- Inverter - Battery ------ Traction_Motor |

 

Uhh... The Prius engine is a conventional "off the shelf" engine. The ONLY difference is the valve timing is changed.

 

I believe all this GM hiding the technical details of the drive system is to prevent Toyota filing an injunction to prevent the sale of Volt for patent infringement on the power splitting system.

The ICE connecting to the wheel above 70 mph is one method to circumvent the HSD patent. The HSD connects to the ICE all the time.

This is a well planned strategy to get the Volt to the market otherwise it will be a disaster for GM. Litigation for settlement can then be done in later date.

 

With all ignorant humbleness, I disagree that Toyota has a basis for litigation (not that I think they would sue regardless.) First off, the power components are connected to the PSD in a different order; but much more importantly, the ICE does not have a straight mechanical linkage to the PSD, and instead hooks up to a generator.

While it is true that the PSD allows power flows from separate components to split and combine, the implementations and actual power flows are quite different at least some of the time. The Volt ICE G/M penalty 100% of the time is an obvious example.

 

LOL. I can't wait to pass one of these pieces of American junk on the road...if it ever comes out!

 

Let's not forget gm was awarded funding allowing them to develop something that America could have really used; an solid "electric" drive car...instead they've used the money to develop a hybrid that underperforms considering it's huge pricetag as well as underdelivering (and in some cases, omitting) almost every important talking point/feature of the original, imagination capturing, design.

it's unfortunate but common for a concept to concede some elements before public release....but GM hyped and promised these features long after they conscionably should have.

They promised to do better, and it really shouldn't have been that hard to clean up their act, but are delivering an overly complicated overly priced car that, given the price per performance, the American public likely won't want. American auto needs a solid hybrid worth bragging about. I wanted GM to succeed in this.

it's embarrassing and it really makes me wonder what happened with the bailout money

 

Perhaps you missed this thread. It has this picture of the layout and more.

 

That's also possible but technical reason was given by GM. It was done for performance reasons in CS mode.

In EV mode, going above 70 mph, MG2 (MGb) torque drop and it become inefficient. MG1 (MGa) is brought into action to assist (mode1 -> mode6). Spinning MG1 also drops MG2 rpm due to how they are hooked up to the planetary gearset. This is all great and clever in EV mode.

However, in the CS mode with the gas engine running and connected to the MG1 (generator), all three ICE/MG1/MG2 are forced to turn the wheels (mode3).

GM can choose mode2 instead of mode3 so the ICE does not power the wheels but the performance above 70 mph would suffer without the assist from MG1 and ICE. It was an either or scenario.

 

Late Breaking News

What does the word Volt, as in Chebby Volt mean anyway?
Most folks would say that it is -

The volt, a unit of potential difference that drives current.
It was named in honor of Italian physicist
Alessandro Giuseppe Antonio Anastasio Volta  (1745-1827).

But hang on a minute, there are other meanings:

volt   
–noun
1. Manège .
a. a circular or turning movement of a horse.
b. a gait in which a horse going sideways turns around a center,
with the head turned outward.
2. Fencing . a sudden movement or leap to avoid a thrust.
Source

So, in light of the circularity, confusion, jumping from one possible
electro/mechanical drive mechanism, etc, etc, Chebby has followed in
development of the Volt, it seems that way back in the beginning they
gave us fair notice.

When they named the car the Volt, what they were saying, even
warning us about was, "Don't expect us to be straight forward about this,
we're going to give you the runaround, and dodge any questions."

And, they were right!

Shame on us for not doing our homework.

 

And Prius is latin for 'to go before.' The Prius came before the runaround Volt.

And QB Ryan Leaf was a bust for the San Diego Chargers. Therefore the Leaf will be a bust.

This game's fun...

 

And car and driver says the Prius is always slow and boring and pretty much sucks!!!! Last time i seen the prius in it they didn't say much in favor of the car. So to me car and driver means less than a random person posting about their view of a car.

 

Car and Driver staff buys the BMW 3 series more than any other car. Must be nice to work for Car and Driver....

Anyways, maybe they should learn more about cars before writing for a magazine.

 

the Volt does give enough EV range that many could easily go several days on EV power alone, the Prius plug in...at 13 miles, only a few could make it on that.

the fact that the Volt was altered is simply engineering finding the original plan to not be viable in extreme conditions. i wondered why the generator was so large since the batteries would not be able to take that large of a charge and now we all know why.

i dont fault them for changing the way the Volt operates in extreme conditions. but what i do question is the shrinking of the car (it was originally touted as a 5 passenger vehicle) and the price point (it was supposed to be in the $25,000 range, so ok, missing it by a few thousand i can see, but 60% more??)

so we have a situation where the spec'd design somehow passed the original engineering validation tests but GM simply could not figure out how to make it, so we add about 3 years to the development cycle (i can post links stating the Volt would be on showroom floors in spring 2008) to pretty much re-engineer the car. (i also think they had some finger-crossing hoping someone would come up with a much cheaper battery design)

granted, the financial circus GM performed undoubtedly affected the timeline for the Volt, but all in all, the car is a bit disappointing considering that this was supposed to be the flagship car to lead GM into a new era.

i test drove it, thought about posting a review, but did not really see the point. it really should have been renamed. it is realistically not the same car they announced in 2006

 

Some back of the envelope calculations based upon Car and Driver's report:

• 98 MPG - electric
• 38 MPG - gas only

Ok, so lets take 100 miles as the base distance in each mode:

• 98 MPG ~= 1 gallon for 100 miles
• 38 MPG ~= 3 gallons for 100 miles
• 200 miles / 4 gallons ~= 50 MPG :: Prius mileage

So if we run 50/50 distance electric and gas, it will achieve Prius mileage. Anything further not on EV, less than a Prius. Anything shorter, more EV, better than a Prius.

Car and Driver reports Volt EV range:

• 26 miles (@80 mph) :: ~52 miles per charge to Prius equal
• 31 miles (heavy footed) :: ~62 miles per charge to Prius equal

So assuming 15,000 miles per year, 365 days, we're looking at 41 miles per day for a typical USA driver, daily drive. Remember, these are just 'back of the envelope' calculation trying to map Volt potential performance in Prius units. . . .

Uh, I'm not selling our Prius for the same reasons we're not interested in the Honda Insight. Of course the more interesting metric would be Jetta TDI units, another compact car.

Bob Wilson

 

I've worked for GM for 15 years. Their latest "blunder" is no surprise: they got their TARP directly for building what was supposed to be the NEXT generation of development vehicles, and indirectly through GMAC TARP monies. They built factories in China, India, Thailand, and all over S. America with our tax dollars. People really need to wake up and smell the Detroit BS and start hounding Washington about this. The money is gone and we got a $4o-60K Prius knock off? Oy.

 

Prius > Volt. Nuff said.

 

Bob, you haven't been reading car and driver long.

they gave the volt in CS mode 35mpg. The test was probably different but they gave the prius 42. Plug in an upper 30s number for EV driving if you have a typical prius foot on the gas pedal. If you are going 41 miles per day, you will use just a tricle of gas in a volt. Let's say a gallon a week versus 5.5 in a prius.

Not that it has a good value proposition, but you shouldn't use EPA numbers for one car, and car and driver numbers for anouther.

 

Overall, I had a much more positive impression coming out of the test drives and rides than going in. I posted my impressions at http://priuschat.com/forums/chevrol...october-thru-november-2010-a.html#post1194704.

If I were in the market, the Volt would be ok for me in terms of space. But, I'm not in the market for another car and I'm wary of buying first model year cars. I'd probably only be willing to chance a first model year car from Toyota, Honda or their luxury nameplates.