GM wants a 230MPG rating from the EPA

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

Lets see how the salesman explains that one!.... I won't take a rocket scientists to see that math doesn't add up!

"Well, ah... sir... well you see, its if you... ah well...may be if you stop every 40 miles and spend 6 hours charging your battery....."

 

Yea, if there is a tax credit that doesn't substantiate bumping the price up higher beyond what its worth.

Did they forget the tax credit is for the buyer.. not the seller?

 

Here is one. 48mpg. Makes sense from all of the other numbers for the Volt that are firm.

EPA confused by Chevy Volt's fuel economy | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews

 

I don't doubt it could get 48mpg on ICE alone "if" it was going 30mph.. but not at 60 or 70!..

the other factor is that if you kill the life of the engine by running it at extreme rpms and push it to its brink, you might could get a sustained decent mpg at 60mph or maybe 70....

Seems like folks keep forgetting the engine "or generator" is only 1.0 liter turbo!.... without a battery storage to draw from, you can't get that much power!!!!

I think at best you would sound like a Kawasaki motorcycle and you better get the extended warranty if you could even buy one of a first generation volt!

 

Are we to assume the ICE starts only when the battery is depleted, or near depleted?

In most every comment above, the assumption is that the first 40 miles are "gas free." In the Prius (I admit a completly differet concept) the ICE starts early to maintain the battery charge within set limits. Might we expect that in the event the ICE starts only when the battery is discharged (or nearly so).... wouldn't there be a reduction in the Volt's performance as the battery nears the end of it's charge, but before the ICE starts? Maybe new high-tech batteries are different, but I vividly recalling in my old Ford that when the battery started to loose it's potential, the lights became very dim.

I want to be positive, I want to be hopeful ... but someone before asked (something like this): if GM can market the Volt that will run at highway speed, and operate all the power hungry accessories .... on a 1.4L gasoline engine, and achieve 230 mpg in doing so, why do they build 6L, 500 hp engines?

 

Well you are wrong on a few points. The engine is a 1.4 liter non turbo. Its designed for a smaller rpm range so it should be more durable (I can hear the gm digs coming already).

Second is the drag on this vehicle is going to be very similar to the 2010 Prius and getting 48mpg should not be hard at all.

Again, the generator is 53kW and should be able to push the car with power to spare at 65mph.

 

The Volt like the Prius uses the pack in a range of about half its capacity so power issues as the pack drains should not be an issue. This also is going to make the pack last a long time.

From wikipedia
"The anticipated energy capacity of the Volt's 375 lb (170 [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram"]kg[/ame]) 220-cell lithium-ion battery pack is estimated at 16 kWh,[2] but is only charged to 85% full when charged up, and is discharged to 30% [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Of_Charge"]SoC[/ame] approximately, before the engine cuts in and maintains the charge at around this level. When the vehicle is plugged into a charger the battery [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Of_Charge"]SoC[/ame] is restored to 85%. Hence the battery has an effective capacity in use of 8.8 kWh."

 

It would help out if you put links for your references on facts.
A 1.4 Liter would be an improvement for sure.. but I'm going off of Chevys own site for my facts and it does say its 3 cylinder 1.0 Liter turbo charged... "sounds like a geo" where are you pulling your facts from that contradict?
I'll be glad to recant allot of my extreme concerns if these issues indeed have been corrected.
After all, I am a reasonable Igor at times!

Here it says the top speed is only a 100mph and the don't even show the size of the gas engine?

Here is another confirmation of 1.0 Liter engine.

I did finally find a site that talks about the change to 1.4L.. if so, this would put the car in the ballpark or being acceptable... especially with its sleek looks. At least with a 1.4 Liter engine, they have something to talk about.

does anybody know whats the deal with the top speed being limited to 100mph?.... is that because it has no more power, or is it computer limited?

This article seems pretty level headed.

 

That chart is anything but clear.

Both TEMPERATURE and SPEED are missing. Both influence efficiency significantly.
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That estimate is very outdated, from the original 3-cylinder 1.0 liter engine not the 4-cylinder 1.4 liter the design got switched to.
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Questions Surround Chevy Volt Fuel Economy Claim

Questions Surround Chevy Volt Fuel Economy Claim- Yahoo! Autos Article Page

"The EPA, in fact, won't back up GM's number. Instead, the agency released a statement reading, 'EPA has not tested a Chevy Volt and therefore cannot confirm the fuel economy values claimed by GM,'"


Edit: Cwerdna, I didn't see that you linked to an article almost exactly the same as this one.

 

thats an excellent level headed link you supplied... I had to insert a quote from it:

 

Where you have 'Chevys own site' you link to a fan site. The concept car did have a 1.0 liter turbocharged engine but they changed that over a year ago.

The wikipedia for the Volt has the most data of any site I have found and does contain references at the bottom.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt]Chevrolet Volt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

The key word is 230 "City" MPG. For an extra $$$$, GM has an optional software program that will sneak around behind whatever restaurant or retail store you are in at the time and plug your car in as discretely as possible. It has a motion sensor and can withdraw the power cord in under 1/10th of a second.

 

problem is that Volt is very heavy vehicle, much heavier than Prius, so with ICE running alone, it has low chance of achieving Prius mpg, especially in real life situations where car is not running at steady speeds.

Not only that, imagine 80hp engine powering car that is heavier than Avalon... thats going to be a blast... 0-60 in... 30 seconds? .

Recent comments from Mr. Lutz indicate that he knows that what he is saying is pure marketing speak but he loves it as it talks about his company about doing something thats worlds best.

Problem is Mr. Lutz, that just like your PR talk from last 5 years where you have promising world class hybrids "next-year", that once customers and reviewers get this vehicle, realize that a lot of claims have been pure marketing talk and basically lies, their dissapointment will overshadow good points of Chevy Volt, and once again your company will need american tax payers to pull it out of its misery. So Lutz/GM, once again, are once again digging their own graves.

Good summary can be found here:
Chevy Volt and 230 mpg: Negative reactions abound, but not from Bob Lutz — Autoblog Green

At the end of the day, Lutz's tactics have cost GM its leadership position and are one of the reasons that Ford sales are going up while GM sales are going down.

 

almost here, is a key word ... and fails to factor in decades of poor quality ... and lies from corporate GM ... now in bko ... they've unloaded scores of properties that are akin to toxic stew ... and WE get to pay GM's tab for cleaning up their fowl land poisons:

GM gets to dump its polluted sites | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press

Now, you say the Volt is "confirmed" to get 40mpg? By whom? GM? oh, and THEY have such a wonderful track record for truth. "We'll sell it in the high $20K's ... then it's the $30K's ... now? who knows, with this company. I hope it DOES make it to market, and that it's a big hit ... but it turns on a lot more then green commercials. Look at the link closely ... GM is NOT a green company, nor has it been an honest one ... ever since the day it bought up all the trolley companies and junked 'em out, decades ago, so it could monopolize transportation.

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Looking back at yesterday's announcement, it's becoming quite clear that this is the result of GM refusing to answer the generator efficiency question.

They absolutely would not provide a MPG value for when the engine provides electricity after the battery-pack is depleted.

We all knew it was lower than what Prius delivers due to the conversion inefficiencies and figured they were just stalling. Now it looks like they did indeed find a way to delay us from finding out what it is all the way until after rollout begins.
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Do you have a link? I already believe you, but I would like to read more about their buying of the trolleys and shutting them down. Thank you for enlightening me on this.

 

Agreed.... moving a heavier vehicle with a smaller engine thats not even hooked to the drive train does not spell better gas mileage..... of course the other factor is "what speed"..... it may do pretty well at 20mph!

GM needs a hysterectomy, new thought, new management, new character.... misleading the public gets attention alright and maybe even tricks uncle sam into giving up some bucks....but kills in the long run.

If they openly boast about a failure, I wonder what they are secretly ashamed about?

Toyota went to "allot" of pain and technology to do what they do..... a few garage mechanics, or let me rephrase, "a few mechanics doing garage projects" will not outdo Toyota without paying a serious price, but then they won't be able to pass that cost onto the customers.

 

spot on hill, GM has shot themselves in the foot every chance they got, now they get to rid themselves of pollution they have caused, come on GM, talk is cheap, get the volt out ASAP !