GM wants a 230MPG rating from the EPA

The whole package at an affordable price is the key.

Trying to look more advanced with higher MPG by using expensive exotic materials and trading off the interior room has been proven to be a failure. The original two seater Insight used Aluminum chassis designed for a niche market proved to be a failure against the Prius. From that point of view, the Volt is heading the same route as the Insight.

The second mistake Honda made was instead of improving the Insight, they forked to Civic hybrid and killed the Insight. I hope GM does not follow this path and keep on improving the first gen Volt.

 

Two-Mode also proved that through added complexity. It cost more and only provided higher MPG for very particular usage.

Waiting for prices to come down later (battery cost for Volt) is a high risk business plan. That sets up the consumer mindset of it cost-prohibitive in the meantime. Why bother, can't afford it.

Prius instead followed the well established (electronic devices) upgrade path, where each model become progressively better.
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Why, oh why ... can't we for ever bury all the dead / zombie threads ... somehow they continue to walk the earth.


Regarding Volt's 15mpg - 230mpg possibilities:
Here's why the high number is Fraud:

http://no-slappz.blogspot.com/2008/11/gm-volt-charged-with-fraud.html


The fact of the matter is that even pure EV (NO tiny ICE to help it along) will get MOST of it's energy from OIL ... or natural gas, or hydro, nuke, coal, steam, PV, wind, grain, etc because electricity has to come from some where. Most electricity comes from spinnnig a generater via HEAT / STEAM ... which is measured in btu's. Here's a NOT all comprehensive chart showing how much heat value that SOME fuel sources have:

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent"]Gasoline gallon equivalent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

You can add coal numbers, Nuke numbers, geothermal average numbers etc ... but there's STILL a HUGE problem. HOW many btu's were spend DIGGING that coal pit ... how many btu's will it require to take remedial measures to bury, spent nuke fuel rods, build the concrete reactor house, grow the grain fuel, process the fertilizer for the grain, manufacture PV panels then dispose of them after being spent ... etc. The colateral elements will make your eyes glaze over.

Will you EVER find an honest btu chart ... that includes dust to dust factors for ALL elements necessary to generate btu's that factor out the preliminary/subsequent btu's required to obtain btu's? Doubtfull. Does GM count on its customers being so stupid that they'll never have to factor in dust to dust calculations? Detracters of the Prius certainly want to worry about it if it involves a Prius battery. GM hops you NEVER consider how many btu's we'll have to subtract to do the necessary cleanup of all its toxic manufacturing sites left behind, when they entered bankruptcy.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-toxic-assets/

http://www.hybridcars.com/environme...y-toxic-dumps-and-mercury-disposal-26044.html



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You'd think there'd be some software setting to automatically close threads when they're inactive for a certain length of time. Still, zombies and vampires continue to be popular for some strange reason.

In a word, yes. Hydrogen's still being touted as something wonderful, isn't it? The whole picture is the only one that matters. And there's far more to it than making better cars. How about light rail, and civic rezoning so work and home aren't so far apart? And bike facilities at schools! And....

 

Great ... now see what you've gone and done ... we have to add more btu's to the chart ... those that GM & the oilie industry will spend, sending out hit men, for you suggesting such a thing.



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OK, add some energy costs for silencing the detractors. But I'm sure it's already in the budget.

 

How does GM arrive at the 230MPG figure?
25Kwh/100 miles is the gasoline equivalent of 144 MPG, assuming gasoline has around 36 Kwh/US gallon. And as many have pointed out here, it is in any case a meaningless number.

If they referred to it as an MPEGOG number (Miles Per Equivalent Gallon Of Gasoline) number, I would less disdainful of their "let's quote it this way, the stupid American Public don't know any better" attitude!

 

Re: Chevy Volt - 230MPG EPA City?

"Great Mystery"? GM to me means"Gigantic Mendacity"!

 

Simple solution .... already mentioned .... the car won't start until the extension cord is removed and the interlock disabled.

 

That assumes that 8 Kwh is equivalent to 0.45 USG of gas. That would make 1 USG equal to 17.8 Kwh. But 1 USG is equivalent to 36.3 Kwh!. So your numbers can't be correct.

 

Folks who state EXACTLY how many Kwh there are in Gas (as I pointed out above) fail to add in important variables, such as how much energy it takes to GET the gallon (pumped out of the ground, refined, deliverd to point of use). Equally hidden is how little energy from a gallon of gas liquid fuel actually moves the car forward. After overcoming friction from the tranny & ICE's internal parts, there is what ... about 15% left of the gallon's btu's to get the vehicle down the road. If number crunchers factor energy spent to overcome friction, the usable btu's are much smaller. So the raw btu's are only a fraction of the whole part in formulating a basis of comparison between electric energy versus gas (or other liquid / gasious fuel).

Get REAL nasty ... factor in lost btu's via our military protecting our "interests" abroad, where much of our fuels come from. Oh, and training replacement soldiers for ones killed, etc. At least the U.S. CAN generate 100% of it's own electrons (import free), and in doing so, it doesn't have to pay billions (increasing national debt) to the nutty countries that want to destroy us. . Oh? don't wana go down THAT road? Ah yes, ignorance is bliss ...