GM tries to unplug Volt hype

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Mar 23 2007, 02:00 PM) [snapback]411060[/snapback]</div>

I believe that you proved that GM and the media did put the message out there, but I don't agree with your assessments that GM put the message out for all to hear. My assessment is that GM slid the info sneakily and quietly into the press releases so that they can point to it when they make excuses when they back out of making it a production vehicle, and in the meanwhile they really just wanted to drive up a lot of hype to improve their image and marketing. The amount of GM grandstanding is much, much greater than the amount of uncertainty.

 

Why can't GM just reintroduce the EV1? They've already done all the R/D on it. They don't have to spend another billion dollars on technology that will more likely be a dead end. Reintroduce it, paint it black and call it a EV2. How about that for a plan?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 23 2007, 06:18 PM) [snapback]411142[/snapback]</div>

What gets me is that GM already made the volt years ago. In 1998 they introduced a concept Gen II EV1 hybrid that has performance almost identical to the Volt . If they could do it 9 years ago with NiMH batteries why can’t they do it today? This is the description from Wikipedia:

EV1 series hybrid
The series hybrid prototype had a gas turbine engine APU placed in the trunk. A single-stage, single-shaft, recuperated gas turbine unit with a high-speed permanent-magnet AC generator was provided by Williams International; it weighed 220 lb (99.8 kg), measured 20 inches (50.8 cm) in diameter by 22 inches (55.9 cm) long and was running between 100,000 and 140,000 rpm. The turbine could run on multiple fuels, from reformulated gasoline to compressed natural gas. The APU started automatically when the battery charge dropped below 40% and delivered 40 kW of electrical power, enough to achieve speeds up to 80 mph (128.8 km/h) and to return the car's 44 NiMH cells to a 50% charge level.
A fuel tank capacity of 6.5 gallons (24.6 l) and fuel economy of 60 to 100 mpg (3.9 to 2.4 L/100 km) in hybrid mode, depending on the driving conditions, allowed for a highway range of more than 390 miles (627.6 km). The car accelerated to 0-60 mph (96.6 km/h) in 9 seconds.

EV1 parallel hybrid
The parallel hybrid variant featured 1.3 L turbocharged DTI diesel engine from Isuzu delivering 75 hp, installed in the trunk along with an additional 6.5 hp DC motor/generator; the two motors drove the rear wheels through an electronically controlled transaxle. When combined with the AC induction motor which powered the front wheels, all three power units delivered a total output of 219 hp, accelerating the car to 0-60 mph (96.6 km/h) in 7 seconds. A single tank of diesel fuel could keep the car running for 550 miles with a fuel economy of 80 mpg.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 23 2007, 02:18 PM) [snapback]411142[/snapback]</div>

Black is Henry Ford's color. Better paint it GREEN.

Really, the world is full of people with good ideas. It's the follow through that separates the men from the boys.

I have a good idea too. Free money. OH, you want me to PRODUCE it?? Here's my promise. As soon as I make $100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 I 'll give y'all some for free.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 23 2007, 04:18 PM) [snapback]411142[/snapback]</div>

Seriously. They're now admitting that killing the EV1 was a huge mistake. However, it's a mistake they can easily undo!

 

If it's got the onboard ICE for providing power, why are they whining
about "battery technology limitations" in the first place? There's
no reason not to make a series hybrid even if the EV-only capability
isn't as far as everyone hopes; you just light the engine sooner.
If the "batteries" argument held any water then WE wouldn't all be
here talking about the Priuses we're enthralled with already.
.
_H*

 

UGH <_<

*Sigh* well it had to happen some time . I remember when Lutz was *suprised* that the Volt got so much media attention. I bet that they wanted it to be a quiet introduction, but all i can say to GM is KARMA . After axeing the EV1 and getting a bad rep, they will now probably never deliver a Volt (hoping that people will just forget) and their reputation will drop to even lower levels!

I know that i should not be so negative but I just don't understand GM. The question has been asked ever since the volt was introduced "why doesn't GM just introduce a first gen with the longer lasting, cheap, proven NiMh batteries? Then later, when the lithium technology arrives, we can make a better, second-gen Volt". I have asked this question to myself and to GM cheerleaders many times. There was an apperent answer from AutoblogGreen that "there is no point in introducing a car with a technology that is about to be 'outdated' in the next-gen prius". The odd thing is that NiMh is better when compared to li-ion in many respects. Not all, but many. At the very least it has everything that GM wants for it's batteries in the Volt : long life, reliability, and low cost. The proof that these batteries were commercialy feasible is the second gen EV1.

Did anyone else think that it was hilarious when Lutz said "we are going to increase our battery-testing employees by 30% over the next few years !"

- Clay

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Mar 23 2007, 02:11 AM) [snapback]410748[/snapback]</div>

I'm surprised that he didn't blame the lack of batteries on the plight of the Energizer Bunny. Last I saw he was abducted by aliens.

The only way GM is ever going to be able to put an advanced hybrid on the road is if they buy up all the Prii and slap GM stickers over the Toyota badges.

Maybe this is how malorn is going to handle his hybrid commitments.

Seriously, if executive compensation was based on retail hybrid sales you'd see the brand new 2008 EV1 on the dealer lots. Too bad the stockholders and the Directors don't have the backbone and balls to hold the management accountable for flushing the corporation down the toilet.

 

This is my favorite part:

"GM chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner has called killing the EV1 his biggest mistake. For evidence he was right look no further than Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. The maker of the popular Prius hybrid has capitalized on its green image just as more Americans are embracing environmentalism."

His biggest mistake.

Duh.

Bit of an understatement there. If they had continued developing it instead, I'd be driving the genIII EV1 or EV3 instead of a Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Mar 23 2007, 05:34 AM) [snapback]410797[/snapback]</div>

Yes, GM was very clear about this. Giving themselves an out from the very beginning. And it was just as much BS then as it is today. Toyota knows it, GM knows it, everybody knows it.... except the general motoring public. I'm driving a pure battery EV with 11-year-old batteries. ELEVEN years ago... and I get 120 miles or range. We can't get 40 miles on battery power TODAY? I call BS on the whole damn thing.

The silver lining here is that now GM can get back to concentrating on selling 1 million FCV's by 2010. Ready? Go!

 

If anyone from the board of directors of GM is reading this, I finally figured you guys out.

You're trying some bizarre experiment to see how big of a dumb move you can make and still sell cars.

OK, here's some hints for your next marketing ploys:

1. Market a 4x4 called the Bin Laden. Advertise heavily that 10% of all profits will be donated directly to Al Qaeda.

2. Put a live rabid rat in all glove compartments as a standard feature.

3. Square wheels.

4. Seal the gas tank. Make it so only an authorized GM dealer can fill the vehicle with gas. Charge $7.00 a gallon, plus labor, for filling each tank.

5. New slogan: "You'll buy it 'cause you're stupid!"

6. Instead of another round of layoffs, shoot employees with a firing squad on live national TV. Have the person saying "Ready, Aim, Fire!" be a GM executive shown smoking a cigar lit with a $100 bill.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 23 2007, 06:18 PM) [snapback]411142[/snapback]</div>

HOLD ON THERE ... are you forgetting who it was that said GM spent ONE BILLION on the EV1? The Head GM Liars. When have THEY told the truth recently? In fact (not counting the free tax payer development $$$), GM spent no way near one Billion. But to come up with one billion, they most likely doubled their numbers by including the cash they spent lobying to undo CARB reg's that forced them to built the car (that they never wanted) in the first place!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Mar 24 2007, 12:00 AM) [snapback]411340[/snapback]</div>

ROGLMAO :lol:

 

what was that?? gm cant deliver? oh im sorry, was that supposed to be news?

 

Oh, Malorn, where art though?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Mar 23 2007, 03:00 PM) [snapback]411060[/snapback]</div>

Ya, but the fact remains that GM did one of their PR stunts again. Just another step in a big disfunctional corp. going down the tube.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Mar 23 2007, 07:23 PM) [snapback]411194[/snapback]</div>

I think the limit is the capacity (size) as well as the power to balance the life of the battery. With EV1, a bulk of NiMH has to be very large to power (137hp) the whole car for 160 mile range. Now with A123 high power Lithium, the pack capacity is 1/4 (40 miles range) yet delivers more power (160hp). If GM cuts down the pack to 20 miles range, you will have the pack that can deliver only 80 hp. If they drop to 10 miles range, you have 40 hp and so on. GM can decide to let the 20 miles range pack discharge at higher rate (@20 C) but that will shortern the battery life and range.

When the ICE kicks in and get 50 MPG, that's pretty low for 3 cylinder diesel engine. Even Prius with 4 cylinder gasoline engine can do 50 MPG easily. Given that diesel fuel contains more energy plus smaller displacement, I would expect 70 MPG. I guess it is due to the conversion loss from the series hybrid design nature.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Mar 23 2007, 03:00 PM) [snapback]411060[/snapback]</div>

Everybody wants to hop on the bandwagon and trash GM. Granted, a company run by beancounters and not engineers is bound to make some really stupid decisions. But as I said earlier - lets give the Devil his due. In its original announcement at the Detroit auto show GM stated that the battery technology would not be available until 2010 or 2012 (see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16503845/ ). Since then, they have actually tightened up that schedule. They have not backed down at all - they actually hope to introduce the first Volts in 2009 -2010.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Mar 26 2007, 04:41 PM) [snapback]412533[/snapback]</div>

GM is getting trashed because their battery statement is assinine. Why can't they use Darrell's 11 year old batteries from his RAV4 or the EV1's batteries? The first Prius will be some 10 years old by the time GM's batteries are ready. Something wrong with our batteries? My bean counting brain can't understand (no offense taken).