GM to Offer Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles in Four-Year

I see your point, but I guess what I was thinking is that I'd like to get my home usage down as much as possible, so that when we do make the move to Solar, and then add EV's our need won't be much more than the solar system installed - to be totally solar. So if we were to get enough solar to cover our current needs, we wouldn't have enough to cover EV's. And I know it's all fluid so to speak, and we could just get a larger solar array, but I was boping for something around 3 kW.

 

Considering how one of the greatest hurdles is containment of the hydrogen, one wonders how they manage to do that with the few prototypes that they've produced. It seems that the reason the press knows virtually nothing about the FCVs is because they don't have any real exposure to them. It also seems that FCV is largely a fantasy technology that they have yet to harness well enough to turn out enough prototypes to allow the press and the public to see them properly.

 

Like Darrel, I came to the Prius from the position of prefering an EV. But since I live in a State that didn't have EVs I couldn't ever buy one. I am seriously considering converting a gasoline vehicle into an EV, enough to know that I could do it myself in my garage. I can't understand why the major manufacturers are spending so much money and time blowing smoke when a perfectly good alternative is right under their noses. In fact, I am convinced that sooner or later this is what we are going to get. The only credible answer I have heard is the need for more technically advanced batteries. There are patent problems in that connection which are tracable to the oil company, Chevron through their wholy owned subsidiery called Cobasys the owner of the patent on the NiMH battery. Different battery technology will take care of that. Then maybe we will hear of new discoveries.

If there is some compelling logic to the push for alternatives to the EV, other than the smoke blown by the industry quoted by Darell, I would be interested to hear them.

 

Well... please know that I applaud your effort! My comments were not meant to be a slight on your post, just an observation. Just the fact that you're considering PV and EV is awesome.

Our 2.5kW system doesn't cover all of our direct usage, but it does cover more than just the car, and more than just the house. With Time of Use metering, the energy CREDIT covers both. So from a money standpoint, our 2.5 system is the perfect size. And again - that's for our home AND primary vehicle.

 

Very expensive and very heavy bullet-proof high-pressure tanks. Yet another reason for the limited range... that we hear little mention of.

You are so right, that my teeth hurt. When ZEVs were mandated, the big auto makers put BEVs on the road in about two years. TWO years to put a car on the road that the auto makers did not want to build. FCV's on the other hand, were being prototyped in the 60's. All this time, the auto makers say that they really want to make them... and in 40 years, we still don't have a retail product? Huh? The press reports what they're told - the FCV's promise all these great things at some undetermined point in the future. If we had been working on battery cars all this time - with the same federal funding and enthusiasm that the auto makers proclaim to have for FCV's, then the offereings today would be astonishing. Hell, the first, forced effort was pretty damn good.

So, to answer my quiz from above... FCV's need to be "warmed up" before they can be driven. There is a complicated start up and shut-down procedure. At shut down, the whole system must be purged of water to prevent corrosion and to prevent freezing which would destroy the membrane. It can dump a couple of cups of water out the tail pipe, which is fun to have on the floor of your garage. When started, these things are LOUD. Louder than most gas cars, in fact. And at idle, they consume as much energy as my BEV consumes when driving at 30mph! And the final kicker that I'll leave here - every FCV made to date has required a bank of batteries just to offer the performance we expect from a full-size vehicle. The FC stack cannot deliver the power fast enough - so batteries are used for storage and acceleration - much like the Prius. A FCV IS a battery electric car. Just costs 20x as much to build, uses a fuel that costs 20X as much to make, and is louder, slower, just as heavy, more dangerous to fuel and operate.... well, I could go on for days.

 

As would I!

I mentioned on another thread that I bought my Prius from the same guy I bought my Rav4EV 3+ years ago. He was really surprised that I hadn't yet "unloaded" the Rav yet. He went on to explain to me that the Prius has all the benefits of the EV, with none of the detractions. This is a Toyota sales manager who sure as hell *should* know better, but obviously does not. To him, the Prius truly is an EV that you "get" to fill with gasoline instead of using that pesky plug.

I bring this up only to show what some folks think of as "improvement."

 

I have.. I'm back on the grid right now, but I lived solely dependent upon hydroelectric for 12 years.... Wood to heat the house and an LP gas fired hot water heater, that usually hardly ever came due to the excess electric already having the water heated.

 

I work on electric vehicles every day and yes they have some advantages in certin instances. Toyota electrics even and I've been following H since the 70's and there still isn't any infrastucture. Ballard the fuels stack wet dream of the stock market in the 90's still hasn't produced a economically viable stack for automotive useage. After a month of rain and cloud PV systems probably won't supply enough to get me to work. We have hydro electric here and it's still fairly cheap but for an average person, there is no interest in a EV. That's just a fact. What is the percentage of Prius on the road compared to Ford Excursions. 2%? I know you have an EV weed but go ask my neighbours wife is she want's to plug in her car evey night so she can go to work? you want her answer? multiply it by millions. That is why there is no infrastructure or demand to provide it. I'd buy shares of LaMarche if I really thought that electric cars were going to take off.

 

I think Hybrid will be the bridge to get us there.. right now.. the whole idea of plugin is what is scaring away many.... once that fear is over, it may be more practicle to consider a boom in pure EV.

 

I want to plug my car in now!!!

 

Prior to coming to PC I had many of the same fears and believed there were many limitations to PHEV's and EV's. Thanks to the members and the many links I have been led to I know believe we need to educate our friends and neigbors and demand that the auto companies produce these vehicles.

I am willing to vote with my wallet!

 

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Yea.. a ton of us do..... but we are still a tiny speck of the population....

We are only warm to it because of our knowledge about the issues and benifits.

Seems once the public gets a bit more warmed up to hybrids.. it will be easy to make the jump.

 

So do I! In fact I already do.. to a block heater. I think what some folks are afraid of is if they forget to plug it in that the car won't run. Of course if they forget to get gas, it won't run either. They have little faith in their ability to learn new tricks. That is so sad because EVs are so neat! And they may be the way to keep riding (instead of walking) when oil gets scarce.

 

when oil gets scarce, electricity will be expensive.

 

Yep, whether bio or what, if they control the supply, they still have us by the gonads..

Until we can access power from sun, wind, hydro, or any resource that is free and then store it.. we are still dependant upon the man.

The only saving grace for plug-in right now is that they can't raise the price of the grid without raising it for every homeowner in america.... we are kinda hiding behind that economic and political shield. "for now"

 

EV's can work but im afraid they will not become popular until gas has primarily run its course. At the Lacey Alternative Fuel Fun Fair, there were several EV cars that were, for the most part, home-made. hobbyists making these cars with mail order kits. even with using ancient technology (most of these cars used LEAD ACID BATTTERIES!!) these cars still performed better than gas cars.

one car displayed on a cost basis, got like 26 mpg if gas was $2 a gallon and something like 35 mpg if gas was $2.50 per gallon (performance was lower than gas, but i believe, carrrying 500 lbs of batteries might have had something to do with that!) and this was a car whose gas equivalent got about 22 mpg. now granted, i live in hydro heaven, electricity is probably a bit less than half what most of you pay, but as i said, these guys were using "ad on the last page of a comic book" technology.

new technology, new batteries, computer controlled charge and discharge circuitry, all that stuff, will make the car better. mitigate the additional load on the network with wind, solar, wave, etc and i think we will have a solution that will greatly extend what oil we do have left.

i dont think we will go completely away from oil for all needs for several decades to come. so its imperative that we start using what we have much more smartly than we have been. solar can become real cheap if the market is there.

 

Isn't your neighbor's wife your neighbor as well? :thinking:

After you've asked her that question... now ask ANY woman EV driver what her favorite part about EV driving is. The difference between this question and yours is that it was actually asked in a survey that GM did during the EV1 program... and the other difference is that I can give you a real answer.

Home refueling is the single most desirable aspect of BEVs for the women drivers. The men mostly answered "acceleration."

Instead of asking your neighbor's husband's wife if she wants to plug the car in at home, ask her how much she enjoys driving out of her way to a gas station, standing on greasy asphalt, breathing benzene, getting the stench of gasoline on her hands while she endures the day's weather, be it hot, cold, windy rainy...

If that doesn't work... ask her if it would be more convenient to have to take her cell phone down to the "phone station" to refuel it every day so she can talk the next day. Charging an EV is EASIER than charging a cell phone!

Go ahead. Ask, and report back.

One day I'll figure out why you've got such a negative view on EVs.... but until then I guess I'll just keep responding.

 

Well... hybrids are the bridge that have taken us AWAY from there, really. Maybe we can recross it and get back to where we were. Here's hoping.

I don't believe that the idea of plugging in has scared anybody. The automotive PR and the press have done the scaring. As I said in the previous post - it is easier to charge an EV than it is to charge your cell phone. Who's scared of that? Think anybody would want a gas-powed phone for the refueling convenience that it would offer? :blink:

 

Except when hybrids are advertised as "you don't have to plug it in." :angry:

It is such a weird situation. Taking one of the BEST benefits of EVs, and turn it into a negative. Amazing. The whole hybrid thing is a double-edged sword for me. A small step forward for most, a big step backwards for a lucky few.

 

Mine will be free by then. But thanks again for the silver lining!