GM slams possible fuel economy changes

Will Saturn's Green Line qualify for a tax credit? It seems to me the low incremental cost and low incremental improvement in mpg would not qualify. How's that going to help sales? Salesman to prospective buyer, "Yeah, it's a hybrid but there's no tax credit. Toyota's hybrid doesn't have one either. So we're just as good."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimN @ Jan 8 2007, 08:57 PM) [snapback]372793[/snapback]</div>

The IRS allocates the 07 Saturn Vue Green Line a $650 tax credit. http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=165649,00.html

 

i think in the long run, gm is afraid that Toyota will come out with a full sized quality pickup truck, priced for MODERATE profits with the goal of selling a reliable truck to make the money on volume instead of one time killer profits.

they did that on the Prius and i think that worked out well for them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Jan 9 2007, 10:54 AM) [snapback]373059[/snapback]</div>

So the Prius was priced for volume as opposed to GM and their pickup trucks? Huh???

 

Market pentration, while less profitable in the short term, can be more profitable in the long-term. The Prius was priced for market pentration and Toyota has the profits to afford it. GM's Bob Lutz recently admitted they made a big mistake by dismissing hybrids, instead of cashing into all the knowledge they learned from the EV1.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JimN @ Jan 8 2007, 07:57 PM) [snapback]372793[/snapback]</div>

Yes, it qualifies. $650.

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=164191,00.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Jan 9 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]373072[/snapback]</div>

Terrible miscalcuslation on GM's part. The press and goodwill Toyota has gathered form the Prius is almost unmeasurable.

 

I do hope GM turns things around before it's too late.

If they can put out stuff like the Volt with success, I won't hold the past against them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Jan 9 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]373083[/snapback]</div>

Volt? That's the acronym for:

V-aporware
OL-dest
T-rickinthebook

PULLeeease. I'm so sick of GM saying, "Look at what we are going to build ..... really really soon". Why is GM paying that dufus to talk about cars that he's NOT making?!? Tell that krud / windbag Lutz to give me a call when it's on the showroom floor.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 9 2007, 09:00 AM) [snapback]373063[/snapback]</div>

gee why am i not surprised that you can not understand plain english???

but then again you can not understand Toyota's basic business model where they sell quality products at modest profit knowing that word of mouth will generate greater sales that will make those modest profits work for them as the volume increases.

you have been doing the gm model of selling way over priced vehicles with pressure sales tactics that get the money and push the customer out the door before they realized they paid way too much for crap.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Jan 9 2007, 11:44 AM) [snapback]373098[/snapback]</div>

I am interested in what you are basing your Toyota vs GM salesprocess thesis on? Any real information or surveys? Didn't think so.

JD Power last sales satisfaction survey:






Toyota sells quality products at modest profits? What are you talking about? Modest profits? 12 billion dollar estimated profit in the US in 2006. Modest? That's $4,800 on every unit they delivered, including some models such as the Prius where the profit is very modest or a loss. Please have some knowledge of what you are talking about next time.

Remember that is $12 billion dollars that will never be circulated in the US economy unless it is loaned back. Make you feel good?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 9 2007, 12:54 PM) [snapback]373105[/snapback]</div>

It is the free market after all. The same laws that let GM move production to Mexico and China without penalty are letting Toyota in, and they seem to be building plants in places like Kentucky, Indiana, and Texas that want the jobs.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 9 2007, 09:54 AM) [snapback]373105[/snapback]</div>

how are you able to survive as a business owner when you dont know anything???

all you can understand is bottom line profits??? you are a fool.

lets forget about gm's monsterous production costs per vehicle

lets forget about gm's super expensive advertising campaign designed to brainwash people into buying their crap.

lets forget about the sales incentives gm has to offer to get people to buy their junk.

lets forget about their maintainence and warantee expenses from trying to support trash that does not provide any customer satisfaction....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Jan 9 2007, 12:10 PM) [snapback]373116[/snapback]</div>

Again some facts please.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 9 2007, 01:15 PM) [snapback]373119[/snapback]</div>

As far as warranty costs go, the last numbers (2005) I saw for Toyota were around $1.4 billion/year compared to nearly $4 billion for GM.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 9 2007, 10:15 AM) [snapback]373119[/snapback]</div>

facts??

i guess this is a one way street as evidenced by your response. how about logic?? that would be a new one as well for you. responding to your posts about credits... well i simply cannot reduce my logic low enough.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 9 2007, 12:27 PM) [snapback]373127[/snapback]</div>

Using the 2005 numbers:

sales difference in

2005-2.194,090
2004-2,595,410
2003-2,848,469
2002-3,063,890

So I would expect GM to have considerably more warranty expense with approximately 10.3 million more vehicles on the road and under warranty. Wouldn't you? For some scale Toyota sold 2.5 million vehicles in 2006 in the US.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Jan 9 2007, 12:27 PM) [snapback]373128[/snapback]</div>

A one-way street? yes i guess you could say that. I am not using inuendo and gut-feeling hate of GM to make my case. Wouldn't logic be the incorporation of facts into decision making?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 9 2007, 01:54 PM) [snapback]373105[/snapback]</div>

Toyota 2006 annual report:
In North America in fiscal 2006, Toyota sold 2.55 million vehicles and built 1.20 million vehicles on a consolidated basis. Including Toyota-brand vehicles contributed by unconsolidated New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc. (NUMMI), North American production amounted to 1.57 million vehicles.

So the wages paid to the workers who assembled those 1.20 million vehicles are not wages but loans?

>>A new study by the Center For Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Michigan, says the steady expansion of the Toyota Motor Corp. base in the U.S. has made a substantial contribution to the nation's economy.
The study, which was financed by Toyota, estimates that the automaker's $13.4 billion investment in the U.S. yielded $14.4 billion in wages in 2003.
...The study noted that Toyota employed 29,135 workers in its U.S. product development, manufacturing, and sales and marketing operations, while an additional 74,060 workers were directly employed in new-vehicle, dealer-related operations. In addition, the study concluded that jobs at suppliers and spin-off jobs created by spending from Toyota employees added another 312,000 jobs to the economy.<<
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Industry/I...S175.A9083.html

While some of the above is undoubtedly corporate spin, to claim none of this money comes back to the US seems silly.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Jan 9 2007, 12:37 PM) [snapback]373134[/snapback]</div>

I said PROFIT was estimated to be 12 billion dollars on US sales. That is the money Toyota takes back to Toyota City after everything has been paid for.
As for the Toyota job creation propoganda, just google ford or gm layoffs for 2006 and you will find far were laid off in 2006 by Ford and GM than Toyota employs. Will some of you ever get it? And yes that money comes back to the US when the Japanese buy things like US treasury bills, not a good scenario.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jan 8 2007, 02:57 PM) [snapback]372658[/snapback]</div>

Thank you for the link - I changed the font to Courier to help align the chart better.

Not happy with the truck statistics across the board - just confirms my belief a lot of them are not used to haul stuff, but personal vehicles.

On the Car to Luxury Car/Truck ratio: Detroit is consistently low (35-38%) vs the Japanese brands (45-50%). Trucks out sell Cars in Detroit by a sizable margin, while Cars lead Trucks in Japanese brands