GM Says 100 to 200 mi on Electric Only in 2-4Yrs

If EVs succeed the washout over the next 5 years politically and otherwise (but mostly politically), I can see a 200 mile range as completely attainable, and at an entry price point similar to what we have now. Personally, I simply don't wish to pay $50+ grand right now for the option. Instead I have been making due with my Leaf SL thanks to a decent eVgo QC network, but I would be much happier not having to charge two or three times a day as I currently do. A 200 mile range would cover my 150 mile AVG days quite nicely. It would also get me pretty much to Austin or San Antonio with only one QC session. What I am not interested in- as implied by the original quote- is anything with an on-board dino-powered engine.

 

I'll go ya 1 more hope in that same vein. That if\when GM makes an 80 mile range claim - that it won't be like their 40 mile range claim - ending up being more like 35miles. But what I'd really like to see GM do is get there CS mode up to 50 miles per gallon - and most important - get the cost of that car down into the range where the average joe can afford it.

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

I hear ya' but as the pack range goes up and up the gas mpg matter less and less. I am thinking for existing owners a better range is better than bumping the mpg from 40 to 50. For a new Volt with the better range, I guess they could add a smaller engine. They already added a Hold mode and upped the range for 2013.

As far as cost hopefully it has no where to go but down. We need Moore's law for batteries.

 

200 miles is for a different car than the volt. I am not convinced that this would be done in an inexpensive leaf type car. For those a lower perhaps 100 mile range would still be used to keep costs down. I would expect a 200 mile car to stay expensive, but lower battery prices would drop prices for these cars. Absolutely agree, when the bulk of the miles are electric the bump from 40 to 50 mpg doesn't make much difference on gallons per year.

2013 volt added a slightly better battery chemistry and it trickled up to 38 mile aer epa. The rumor is for a more appropriate engine, which would be higher power in a voltec 1.5 suitable for the cadilac ELR, out in 2013 or 2014. This battery tech would likey take up less room, but still be 40 or 50 miles in a second generation redesigned volt.

For those anti-gm types, think of it this way. If this tech comes out, a 2020 prius phv might get a 35 mile pack and much more power.

The speed of battery price deductions seem about 7%/year, but it will come in fits and starts. Its exponential but much slower than moore's law of semiconductors. DOE is predicting $300/kwh in 2020.

 

And presumably you hope the same for Nissan and Toyota.

GM's 40 mile range claim was based on city test cycle results and not the actual EPA window sticker range estimate. This was explicitly noted in at least some of their PR materials. Likewise, Nissan claimed 100 miles (73 per EPA) of range and Toyota claimed 15 miles (10 EV plus 1 gasoline per EPA). By comparison with Nissan and Toyota -- GM's claim was far closer to the EPA estimate (EPA was 13% less) versus 27% less for Nissan and 27-33% less for Toyota. I don't know what the Volt actually got on the city cycle that GM was referencing in their claim, but the Volt got 51.6 miles of battery range in the NEDC European city-oriented test cycle (similar to EPA's UDDS) and the LEAF got 109 with the Plugin Prius coming in with a little over 14.

As for the Volt's CS gas mileage, it's about the same on the highway (where it is mostly used) as the Lexus CT 200h compact sedan which is smaller than the Volt and uses the same engine and hybrid transmission as the current generation regular liftback Toyota Prius. I'd like to see it improved but it's not terrible and was a reasonable time-to-market engineering compromise. I can easily drive it to get 45-48 mpg on the highway which is the same as I got driving my 2004 Liftback Prius (driven a bit less conservatively). I typically get 48-50 miles of range on my one-way 45.5 mile highway commute each way. My last month OnStar report reported that I drove roughly 600 miles in CS mode and averaged 44 mpg overall while my driving on battery in CD mode averaged 260 Wh per mile across 1800 miles of driving (roughly 2400 miles total). My total gas usage across all miles was 163 mpg.

Also, many Prius drivers report that the car's computer mpg is about 5% better than numbers hand calculated from gas pump results. The 3 times I hand calculated my Volt mpg from the gas pump it was in agreement with the car's computer display within better than 1% accuracy. I haven't seen many other Volt owners report on their experience so I haven't seen enough data to have high confidence yet on how consistent that result is.

 

This is why I'm not happy with the sales directions we're seeing in the Hybrid Dashboard report. The market share seems to hover 2.5-3.0% depending upon the price of gas. EV and plug-in sales are boring and even the 'clean' diesels make barely a dent.

Bob Wilson

 

This thread is about plug ins. They are up 160% year to date. Dropping battery prices will accelerate growth. It must be remember these are coming from quite a low level, and are just over 20 thousand in 7 months. I would expect to see over 50 thousand in the same period next year.

 

Personally, I hope for a car powered by hydrogen fusion and capable of both flight and flotation. I also hope it can make and dispense an excellent mocha cappuccino.
I don't put a lot of faith in vaporware.
I also hope it will diagnose 473 different medical problems. And... no, that one is kind of obscene...

 

Heck, I'd be happy with a car that doesn't keep getting cut off.

 

Swappable batteries are not here now. There is no infrastructure for it now. There is no super-charger network now and it is unlikely that there will be when only one niche company like Tesla is selling cars that can use it. There are no hydrogen stations, the are no natural gas stations. The are no Cold Fusion energy stations.

But what we do have now are homes (and businesses) with electrical outlets. And what we do have now are EVs that can get about 80 miles per day...or per charge if you will. Yes these cars are relegated to city/suburban driving, but do you realize how many of us only drive 50 miles per day?

As a second or third car, today's EVs can have a big impact on local air quality and consumption of foreign oil. I understand that if your daily mileage is greater you need something better. But for those off us who only need up to 80-100 miles pr day you really need to take the plunge now, because the only way we are going to get 200 mile range EVs is to start using the ones with 100 mile range.

Not every car you own has to accommodate 7 passengers with luggage, be four wheel drive, make it to Disney world on one tank of gas at 80 mph, When it comes to cars, we need to think about using the appropriate "tool" for the job.

 

+1 fjpod!
Couldn't have said it better myself. Everyone's driving needs are different.
2 car households definitely have more flexibility as well. My primary car is my EV, my gas burner (PHEV) is relegated to secondary status
As batteries improve, the price point will come down, making EVs a better and better fit for more people.

 

Here is a map of 499 cng public stations. Many governments and businesses operate private stations and fleets of vehicles. A CNG network is available regionally. The source is only slowly updated.
Alternative Fuels Data Center: Alternative Fueling Station Locator

And about 4000 public chargers and growing.

 

It looks like there are very few around me and the ones that are are in airports. That doesn't sound very convenient. I think the advances in EV have pretty much made CNG dead in the water. It's all about infrastructure and the electric grid is already in place.

 

You are likely drawing the wrong conclusions. There are over one hundred thousand natural gas vehicles in the US, but many have private fueling infrastructures. This gives cng vehicles more fuel share than electrified vehicles. Often these are complementary, with cng used in bigger vehicles like trucks and buses. It is fairly cheap and easy to add cng fueling on the interstates. One reason for the picken's plan, is it requires much less money for infrastructure. One problem with heavy trucks and cng, is simply the size of the tank. Here methanol or lng may be better than cng.

Both plug-ins and cng vehicles as well as Methanol blends and lng, appear to be part of the energy future. Looking at the civic ngv, plug-ins will keep an edge on midsize cars and smaller. CNG and hybrid cng may find its way into busses and light and medium duty trucks. CNG phevs especially makes sense for large vehicles that stop a lot and go to a central depot to refuel, delivery trucks and busses. These often operate in cities where low emissions are also important.

 

I guess my 2011 Toyota Sienna is a piece of crap, as it cannot go from San Jose to Disneyland on one tank with only 2wd.

 

Ya you have a point they might have a future in heavier duty applications but I stand by my opinion that CNG will never go truly mainstream as everyday drivers.

 

I can see areas that are large exporters of natural gas like Texas, Oklahoma, and Pennsylvania supporting many cng or methanol/blend pick up trucks and SUVs where space for tanks are not a problem. If you can get change over in heavily air polluted cities like Pittsburgh and Houston, it would be quite an environmental accomplishment. These vehicles don't yet seem to have good phev or bev choices. More gallons of fuel a year, makes payback on the changeover make more sense. Numbers don't work out all that well with the civic ngv, when you could buy a prius phv or c-max energi instead.

 

But you could claim to be driving the cleanest non-plugin car in the world if you drive a Civic NGV. And if you live in Texas or most of the country that using coal power, you could still say your Civic NGV is the cleanest.

 

People might laugh at you in my part of Texas, where we choose to run our plug-ins on wind or sun. There is a push to run cars and trucks on wind and natural gas, here we have plenty of hot air and shale. We also have air polution problems especially in Houston and Dallas. Most texans think we should import less coal from those other states, it just doesn't make sense. If we can substitute natural gas and wind for coal and oil, we can sell our refined products and make more money.

Best not to brag on a ngv versus a plug-in. It would be a proper texan to be proud to be substituting local natural gas for imported oil though.
2012 Honda Civic Natural Gas Test – Review – Car and Driver
It may be a good California car. They have more infrastructure, more air polution problems, and hov stickers. Its definitely a better car than many are driving, but the compromised trunk, lower hp, and 200 mile range make it a tough sell in texas. That may change if gas prices go up, but cng prices stay low and infrastructure is built. CNG Test Drive: Ford F-250 SD Bi-Fuel - PickupTrucks.com News
It seems f series and silverados are coming, hopefully they will get less expensive as more are produced. I have a friend that would like to replace his tacoma, with a natural gas version in a couple of years.

 

Who gives a flying fart what GM says in future looking statements. Completely and utterly worthless.