GM: Prius is a stripped-down Corolla. The Volt is drastically different.

GM wishes the Volt started as a stripped-down Corolla!

 

Now the word today is that the Volt will not re-charge during driving. It has to be pluged in for a re-charge so you can go another 40 miles. Now there is a design flaw. How dumb is that?? So you pay amost 40 grand for a car that is only good if you drive only 40 miles then you are back using the gas engine with much lower MPG.

 

It's not the "word today". This has been apparent in GM's press releases for at least the past week, folks just weren't paying attention.

 

My comments on this are... Typical GM Junk!

I've owned a couple GM vehicles over the years - the most recent a Saturn L200. I vowed I'll never buy another GM vehicle again! My most recent disappointment with the L200 was when I learned the car was cupping the rear tires. GM fixed it under warranty, but I learned the problem was the lack of adjustment tolerance in the design which caused some of the cars off the assembly line to cup the rear tires, and some not. How often have you heard of the rear-end alignment being off so bad it cups the tires? I've never run into that before - and I've been owning and buying NEW cars for over 35 years.

I've closed the door on GM.

{whew.. now I'll get off the soapbox}

 

While everything you say about GM may be true, comanies can change. You may be too young to remember the first Toyota's back in the '60's. My father-in-law had one. It's was a piece of cr*p, for more reasons than you mentioned above. Something was always breaking, the dealer could never fix it or it took forever to get the part, which would end up breaking again anyway. It took alot of Consumer reports articles before I bought our first Toyota, our 2000 Avalon XLS. We are totally happy. I'll wait for the results before condeming something unknown. You may be right. But then I would never have even known about PC if I hadn't been willing to give Toyota another chance. Just my 2 cents, which is not worth much.

 

At 66 years of age, here is something I saw years ago, that I like to remind myself of, when I tend to get too set in my thinking.

The Pike Syndrome Video

 

No offense intended, but considering Japanese car manufacturers had been well ahead for two decades before that it's more of a case of "what took you so long?" I remember Japanese built things being cheap junk as a boy, but by the 80's this reputation was gone and domestic car makers had the bad rep. I had driven enough domestic vehicles by 1990 to last a lifetime and was determined to stick to foreign automakers, preferably Japanese. There was already a considerable price premium built in for doing so, but dependability was at the top of my list.

One of these days perhaps I'll get into a domestic vehicle, like the seat position/comfort, like the handling, like the interior, etc., but it hasn't happened so far. The last GM I was stuck in as a rental (brand new) had AWFUL seats that were unfit for a 15 minute drive. (Ford Exploders were always similarly uncomfortable, although in them I was the passenger.) Perhaps they are built for Pillsbury doughboy types because they sure don't work with my frame. It took me two weeks to recover physically. I had a brand new Grand Am as a rental back in the late 90's that ran out of gas at 1/4 tank indicated, the engine started running rough after only a hundred miles (V6), and the rear ABS locked up during a hard stop on dry pavement. Plus the control knobs/interior in GM's typically have had what I call "Fisher Price" plastic look and feel, just not my cup of tea. And GM has typically been the best of the Big Three...

 

I disagree. Toyota is the most reliable Japanese car maker back in the 60's and so is today. My college roommate had a 68 Corona and he drove it like crap, it held up and never had a problem. It was even before Honda knew how to build a 4 door sedan without a motor cycle engine.

 

Not true ... the Volt has worse drag

 

You are obiously too young to remember products from Japan before they discovered that "Quality" sells.

 

No offense taken. I greed with you. My point was to suggest that you don't get caught up in the "Pike Syndrome".

 

Statistics prove that wrong. The average work commute is 30 miles round trip. That equates to nearly 100% gas free for many people. My commute is 20 miles now (it was longer last year) and I could plug in at both ends.

Second the Volt does not start on gas when charged EVER. When you floor it, the engine does not start unless the pack is discharged. It does not use the engine to heat the pack. Range is reduced when cold if its in an unheated garage.

Finally educated market (it really does exist!) will favor Volt buyers that CAN use its features best. A 100 mile commuter should not buy it. A commuter that can plug in at work (and on works dime!) will LOVE it. Just like a person who cannot plug in and is mostly city should probably buy a Prius and the person who is all highway and speeds at 75mph all the time should buy a Civid hybrid (or slow down).

More choices are almost always better.

 

Actually it's a WAY-upscale Cobalt. It's on the same new platform as GM's new Cruze and other compact cars.

But it's only a 4 door, 4 seater weighing in at ~3300# !!!!

 

No that's not a correct understanding.

The Volt and PHEV Prius will both end up being similar after the initial charge period is depleted with one being a serial hybrid and the other a parallel hybrid.

In the case of the Volt, under perfect conditions, one will charge the vehicle and be able to drive 40 miles gas-free. After that the 1.4L ICE will kick on and off to generate power - through the Li-Ion battery pack - to drive the electric motor to drive the wheels. Depending on the size of the fuel tank one might be able to drive 250 to 350 additional miles until gas is needed again. At that time just like any vehicle one would add gas and continue on. One could easily drive across the country and back just on the 1.4L ICE if necessary.

In the case of the PHEV Prius ( we are assuming ) it will also be charged and one will be able to drive 'X' miles gas-free. After that the ICE and e-motors and Li-Ion batteries will revert to the 'normal' Toyota HSD technology. Again one can drive as far as the fuel tank will allow, then refuel and repeat indefinitely all the way across the country and back.

The key differences are
..the size of the Li-Ion battery pack, and thus
..the gas-free range,
..the size and power of the ICE
..the cost to manufacture,
..the size of the fuel tank for hybrid driving
..the selling price.

 

Air bags and seat belts are a dead weight until you have an accident
Back seats are a dead weight when driving alone
An engine with more power than is needed to maintain a constant speed is dead weight at a constant speed
The author of this article is a dead weight at his publishing house.

 

Again that is just plain wrong. Commuting for most is more then half of their miles on their car. Of course that is not the case for everyone but GM is indeed correct that if you plug it in when you get home the AVERAGE person will be on electric mode more then half the time. You keep saying that two thirds of the time you will be burning gas, that is not correct.

Further the average Volt buyer will probably have a lifestyle optimized for that vehicle. Someone like me who commutes the right distance and can plug in easily will benefit most. I drive to Washington and Baltimore to visit family and friends which again would almost always be electric. Then on the long trips if I were to get 40mpg that would be fine with me. Long trips for me are about every two months. If I don't change my habits I am going to be 90% electric with almost all trips 40 miles or less.

 

I agree. :nod:

 

I have to agree that the PHEVs ( Prius ) and E-REVs ( Volt ) will be a very very small part of the hybrid market.
1. The selling price is far far beyond the capability or the average Joe or Jane.
2. The necessity to plug it in immediately restricts who can use its best feature.
3. The infrastructure is not yet in place to make it easier for long distance travellers to plugin away from home.

I think that Toyota has the right idea in having an upper trim Prius that's got the latest technology Li-Ion PHEV but the bulk of the sales by far will be the traditional HSD system. That's where the volume and the profits are.

GM has to do something dramatic and I wish them well because it benefits all of us but I think that they ( the faithful ) have their hopes too high for some miracle to occur. The Tahoe/Yukon 2-Modes are both wonderful technology and accomplish more for the country than they are given credit for. However...."yawwwwwnnnn". Who knows that they exist and who cares?

I fear that the GM faithful will end up whining about the stupid American public that can't recognize how wonderful the Volt is when it doesn't skyrocket to the top of the charts. The rejoinder of course to the whiners is.....
'What color is YOUR Volt?'
'Uhhhh, I don't drive cars, I drive trucks.'