GM Missing the Boat on Hybrids

actually on the Hindenburg it wasn't so much the hydrogen as it was the butyl dope they used to coat the cotton covering. Once it ignites it burns like wild fire. I'll concede the H2 didn't help but it was mainly the cotton covering.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Robert Taylor\";p=\"73481)</div>

Robert:

The biggest crock of s*** to the "hydrogen economy" is the concept it will exist in gaseous form. Even super high pressure tanks - which are remarkably dangerous in the public transportation environment - can only store a minute fraction of the energy of an equivalent volume of liquid gasoline.

Liquid gasoline is fairly easy and "relatively" safe to transport, store, and use in the public transportation environment. Liquid hydrogen, OTOH, is remarkably difficult to store and transport. I doubt anybody wants to mess with cyro tanks.

The only way for hydrogen to work in cars is to come up with an "easy" hydrate. Perhaps in solid/metal form that is easily catalyzed. Beats me, my physics in college is now a dim memory.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon\";p=\"73489)</div>

AH yes, it had all the ingredients one needs for a Big Boom: toxic, flammable, and just waiting for a nice spark.

The irony is that the Hindenburg would have gone POOF in the same way if the H2 cells had been completely empty and it had been parked in the hanger. I recall a documentary about that airship where the workers were absolutely forbidden to even have matches or cigarettes on them while on shift.

There was a very good reason for that - at the time - very strict policy.

 

do a google on "Palladium and hydrogen" it's the only hope and it's super expensive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon\";p=\"73499)</div>

Does not sound too friendly to a mass production low cost environment.

 

Oh good. GM has shown plenty of incompetence so let's reward them with $44M of our tax dollars to help them build 40 vehicles. They are graciously matching our contribution and the cars will only cost $2,200,000 each. What a deal. They will probably continue to claim that Toyota is losing money on hybrids.

GM in $88 mn hydrogen fuel cell vehicle deal with DoE
http://www.newratings.com/analyst_news/art...cle_754574.html

 

actually GM is putting up half the bill so its only a measly 1.1 million per vehicle. cant get too much cheaper otherwise they wont be able to afford to give those $500,000 rebates...

besides 1.1 million is a bargain when you consider the cost of the american hybrids. the government paid the big 3 about $350,000 to develop 3 hybrids for the Supercar Fund which were introduced back in May of 2000. those cost us over 100 million a piece.

*edited* ooops i meant to say that the government spent $350,000,000.00 on the 3 hybrid prototypes. and yes the zeros are for effect

 

David:

Not only is that vein in my forehead starting to pulse, but my left arm just went numb .... GM couldn't get any dumber if they tried.

 

Excellent column from the Dallas Morning News Business section today by fellow Prius driver Scott Burns:

Security threat: Detroit
12:15 PM CST on Saturday, April 2, 2005

Nearly 35 years ago, General Motors Corp. asked a consulting firm to examine a problem.

Imported cars, mostly Japanese, had captured 25 percent of the California car market. GM management was worried. The Big Three still had 90 percent of the national market, but top brass at GM saw California as the future.

So the study was done.

Today, General Motors' market share is down to 25 percent nationally. The Big Three have seen their share shrink to 57 percent.

Our domestic automakers, including Ford and Chrysler, have lacked foresight and innovation for so long that they are now fighting to hold market share in the big categories essential for survival: midsize cars, sport utility vehicles and minivans. . . . .
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...urns.45e03.html

 

To avoid registering for that site visit http://www.bugmenot.com

 

How do you figure? Chrysler's sales are up, and Ford sells the same number of hybrids that Toyota does... One.

 

According to Fox News today,

DETROIT — General Motors Corp. (GM) said on Monday that Chief Executive Rick Wagoner will assume the leadership of automotive operations in North America, where the car company has been losing money and market share.

Bob Lutz, chairman of GM North America, and Gary Cowger, president of GM North America, will relinquish their roles and focus full-time on global responsibilities. Lutz will lead GM's global product development activities, and Cowger will focus on global manufacturing and labor.

 

A Mind Opener to the American Auto Industries demise is a book called "Some like Chariots" Included is the incredible open attitude that the Japanese Auto makers adopted even when it was totally alien to thier own concepts.

 

RANT ON

It's the problem when companies try to spend more money on lobbying and lawyers than engineers and quality control. Rather than argue every proposed change, foreign companies seem to implement them (safety, MPG, emissions) before the rule is suggested while US companies go to washington to argue. It makes me wonder if it's our attitude and mindset where we do a "cost analysis" and determine it will cost less to delay the inevitable than allow it to go ahead. Airlines are notorious for this. I bet they know lobbying just slows, not stops, the process, but have decided it saves them a dollar. Or better yet for emissions and MPG when they don't want to set a bad precedent - if they don't argue the goverment will just set rules nonstop! Our government wouldn't care anything about businesses, jobs, economy, or industry if corporate lobbies weren't there to protect us!

Reminds me of Fight Club when Edward Norton explains his job for a car company ("a major one") of going to the accidents caused by faulty cars to determine if it would be cheaper to settle the claims as they occur or order a recall. I think I chuckled and thought "Probably!"

The big 3 are getting to the end of their rope... they should have been doing their big makeovers a few years ago when profits were good. They still have time to make a comeback (AKA Chrysler) but it's like an addicition... they have to admit there's a problem and want to change. Not feed into it by making crappier cars and selling em with bigger discounts to compensate!

I have never liked the Asian cars and the Prius is the first one I've owned, every car of mine has been GM or Ford, my family as well. I usually find Asian cars practical, dull, uninspired designs (Honda Civic Hybrid perfect example.. great car, dull as a box of rocks.. it's the kind that would earn a top score from Consumer Reports. I was a little scared when Prius got a top pick since usually they like BORING cars but I guess even they couldn't hold back) I would be hard pressed today to think of one Ford or GM I would consider buying and the Asian cars are FAST coming out with exciting, interesing cars. The days of boring practical car no more!

Heck, with multinational corps you can never tell.... they might have everything in this country today, and tomorrow move everything to Bermuda, laying off everyone in the process to save taxes. Or on the flip side, have some foreign company start to look more and more domestic. Who can even tell? I think it's safe to say Multi-National Corps have no national loyalty per se, other than whatever residual might be from the employees or shareholders.

RANT OFF

This is what happens when we hold things in too long. When I livied in Houston I was forbidden to talk anything related to politics after I said something about "the terrorist who calls himself a President" and the table went quiet. Now it's all gushing out! Thanks for the therapy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26\";p=\"78408)</div>

Non big-3 sales continue to grow at a faster rate. Last month Chrysler sales did grow 4%, but Toyota grew 12% and Nissan grew almost 13%. Ford dropped 5.1% and GM fell 1.3%. If those trends continue (and they have for a while) it's easy to see where things are headed.

Ford sold 1,569 hybrids in March. Toyota sold 10,236 and has two additional hybrids about to hit the showroom. They might each have one hybrid vehicle right now, but someone is selling a heck of a lot more of them - and it's not Ford.

In 2004 the Toyota Prius accounted for 53,000 out of 88,000 hybrid sales.