This message board is very interesting at times, and is giving me a window into the Toyota nation. I am very invested with Ford, GM and DCX, and will soon be with Toyota. So I consider this a learning experience.
Go take your psychoactive medication, you're getting annoying again. GM has NOT brought safety technology to the "mass market." Volvo, Mercedes, and others were WAY ahead of General Motors. With the exception of s*** like tailfins, vinyl tops, etc, what has The General invented or FIRST brought to mass market?? Are we at economic war? Perhaps. Are we being defeated? Maybe. Whose fault is that? US! We are to blame! We have become fat, lazy, insolent, greedy, and just plain obnoxious. But in the end, nobody pointed a gun to our collective heads to FORCE us to do that. We happily and willingly gave in to it. Here, check up on these little tidbits: http://mwhodges.home.att.net/reserves.htm As far as engineering work, I have been approached by Chinese nationals to contract for them. Satisfied?? Do you think I'd be a "traitor" to work for a Chinese company? YOU BET I would! Now get a life. I have to get ready for a date.
This isn't a toyota forum. This is a Prius and hybrid forum... people here aren't necessarily all about worshipping Toyota... maybe try another forum if you want easy fodder who just does worship Toyota...
Oh. So that makes it okey-pokey, because The General had a 49% share in Isuzu. So Isuzu was a "good" Japanese company, not an "evil" one like Toyota. And let's face it, thanks to Isuzu's clean-sheet Duramax, The General is almost beyond the laughing stock it had with it's "diesel" motors
We're wasting our time stating the obvious. There IS no point to his arguement, just a complex circular trap. Of course, the various loyal GM forums believe that claptrap like Gospel.
while GM is closing down ...they are adding to the Ft Wayne plant and adding 200 more jobs...they just asked Allen County for a big tax abatement...crazy...
Why are some of you so hostile? I have not tried to insult anyone. I have hardly posted on here in the last month.
I had a phone call from my wife's aunt last night. She is a well-renowned professor and environmentalist, and she wondered why she is continually getting less than 30 mpg with her Prius and her sister is getting 32 mpg with a Buick Century. She is an awful driver and not very tech-savvy. It made me wonder how much of the mpg is the hybrid, and how much is just the engineering of the vehicle and the way it is driven. Just so people know i am not bashing the Prius her grandson(my brother-in-law) gets 52+ with his.
If you think that those are the only two factors, then you are mistaken... what is the climate she is living in? What is the terrain like? How long is her commute in the morning? tire pressure? A host of things could be going on... if her commute every day is only 1 mile, for example... and she's living in a cold climate, then no wonder... short trips kill the mileage because the car is stuck in ICE mode during a warmup cycle. Short daily commutes kill mileage because a majority of the drive is spent in the warmup cycle, and more efficient valve timing plus EV mode is disallowed. There's probably a reason why her mileage is so low... the driver and driver technique is only one factor. I just finished a 430 mile trip from Boston to Philadelphia, and then back up to NY... almost all highway miles with cruise control on most of the way, so "driver technique" factors in very little on the highway... 52.7 MPG... I beat EPA...
She lives in Seattle and usually drives less than two miles at a time. What do you recommend I tell her?
In addition to laughingman's comments, I was wondering - Does your wife's aunt live close to her sister?
That's probably what's killing her mileage. But to be sure, check things like tire pressure... if her tire pressure is low that will dramatically affect mileage, and as you know, is also dangerous... In the winter, she can stave off further mileage drop by getting a block heater, if that's possible... that should cut down the warmup time dramatically and mileage should go back up. And of course, there is driver technique. If she learns to drive the car better, she can also negate some of the negative effects of the short trip...
malorn, I am sure she wasn't lying. The 2-mile commute is killing the MPG. It is well-known among Prius onwers but not by the general public. Every chance I get, I tell my friends before they buy one. The longer you drive per start-up, the better the MPG. I drive 16 mile per trip. I am getting 46mpg w/o really trying. My wife drives her Odyssey averaging 1-2 miles per trip (busing kids), she gets 15mpg, not bad compared to EPA17-18 city. However, the Prius is very sensitive to short trip. You probably get 25-30mpg for the first 2 miles. She probably isn't the right person to own a Prius.
She should get an ALL electric car. My friends dad actually just bought an old one (from the 70's I think) and he actually uses it to get around town. I don't know how easy it would be to find one, but less than 2 miles at a time is most likely her big problem. I asked about how close she was to her sister, just to compare, but I imagine if she drove her sisters car, she'd probably get worse mileage on that too. Maybe she should get a scooter - some of them get 100mpg Oh.. let's also not forget, it shouldn't all be about the gas savings - what about the environmental benefits too.
I haven't been following this thread, and I am now finding the first page and a half a bit unnerving. 'Facts' are presented to support a position (fine), but then these 'facts' are proven to be unreliable. This makes it tough to trust anything such an unreliable poster says in the future, especially so if this kind of behavior is repeated. Conversly, false fact "busters" command greater reliability. To get back on thread, while I may not prefer the products of GM, I agree that until their management is routed, it appears the line workers will suffer the most. GM is a large multinational corp., and while they may be ailing, they're large enough to recover. Like a nation in severe recession, there must be a concerted will, direction and leadership.
Ouch!.... and its jayman.... coming out of his corner in the 3rd round... man that was a nice right hook!... he really stunned his opponent with that one........ yes ladies and gent... opps.. I got carried away... sorry....
I wonder how many miles her sister does on her trips?... Its bad on "any" car to only go only 2 miles.. all that tends to do is get condensation in everything when she turns it off.. then it never burns completely out.... tends to get water in things.. like the oil!!!!.... Not an immediate critical problem she will notice anytime soon, but it will lessen the life of the engine.... If she doesn't have to go fast.. she could drive in EV mode!.. "if she had a switch?"... but that may be bad advice for someone who drives non tech savy.... Sounds like the MPG she is getting is due to the ICE being on just about constantly to warm the car up.. the batteries never even get used!, so the efficiency of the cars use of its batteries are never realized.... If she only drives 2 miles a day.... what does she care what her gas mileage is?... get a hummer! :lol:
What I liked most in the WSJ article is GM's ceo response..."We've been ahead for the last 73 years in a row, and I think betting odds are that we'll be ahead for the next 73 years" is that before or after US taxpayers bail your butt out like the airlines(and still theft, lies and ineptness is rampant in US carriers)? I have repaired both product lines and the GM's are a joke. Wagoner's coments remind me of the old political add from the early 80's with the aid telling the congressman "sir we are almost out of gas...sir? sir!! (pan out to a stalling car on a lonely highway) Anyone remember that one? The 4.2 billion dollar discrepency in profits is coming into focus now....We don't care, we don't have to. If Toyota builds 65 or 70% of the cars sold in america, in america, are we still an import? Regards, Mike
